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Sense of Duty and the Zeta Male

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  • Sense of Duty and the Zeta Male

    Hello fellow AVfM forum members,

    Since learning of the term Zeta Male and the concept of MGtOW in general, I have started reassess my former assumptions about certain concepts and how they relate to men. In particular I have been struggling with the concepts of honor, courage and duty. In the past, these were things which I assumed were a virtue but after taking the red pill they have lost some of their appeal. Who does honor, courage and duty benefit the most? It seems to me, of the three, duty seems to benefit the individual with that trait that least. After all what is duty but a perceived obligation to work for the benefit of others? Whether this means upholding the law or meeting implied or written obligations, the primary beneficiaries of this trait are mostly those who interact with the the dutiful person. In the past we and even in the present the duty of men has been to be act as expendable providers for women and children. In terms of survival women have benefited from this much more than men. In the modern day I see duty being used as a weapon of shame to get men to take responsibility for the well being of others. I know that many MGtOW have been targeted by these shaming tactics. Having a sense of duty does have some benefits. A dutiful person may be considered trustworthy or competent, thus the problem lies in defining what ones duty is.

    Defining what the duty of a zeta male should be has been a point of internal conflict for me. Is it purely a matter of individual choice in which one can define duty on their own terms or does society still have the right to place a sense of duty on the zeta male? I don't find the concept of a society asking any person who is capable of putting more back in to the system then the take out unreasonable. This was how human civilization got to where it is now. Does a zeta male have the right to object to this duty if he disagrees with how the surplus generated by him is used? Should I have help pay for a single mother who is having her fifth child from a fifth father, when I have chosen never to have children meself?

    Duty is not a useless concept but it has been used as a weapon against men and thus I see a many MRAs rejecting the notion of duty. I would like to open up the concept of duty with respect to zeta male on this forum. I hope this thread goes well and if it does I hope to later introduce threads covering discussion of the other concepts I mentioned, honor and courage, should take in the zeta males life.

  • #2
    RE: Sense of Duty and the Zeta Male

    Duty is a top down thing. The collective or state instills a sense of duty in you and punishes you if you do not fulfill your duty. The same thing duty accomplishes can be accomplished through a bottom up thing. Nobody tells you what to do, you have freedom and you do something because you care and you are rewarded for your efforts.

    Duty is unnatural and is actually just about taking away your freedom often under the guise that it is for the greater good. Duty is only needed when reward and benefit is going to be withheld from you.

    Feminists love duty for men.
    A feminist told me a joke: What slave is not a slave? A slave master.

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    • #3
      RE: Sense of Duty and the Zeta Male

      Hello Troll,

      I think I disagree with your assessment on the nature of duty. For instance would it be a bad thing for a person regardless of gender to place the well being and development of their child above their own happiness, out of a sense of parental duty? I can agree that the traditional sense of duty promoted by feminism and the "patriarchy" is a bad deal for men but that doesn't mean duty has no place in the zeta males life.

      You seem to be implying that acting out of duty is a hallow experience but that isn't necessarily true. Sense of duty can be very rewarding for those not willing to consider it's cost. There is an episode of AVfM radio about this concept which they refer to as "The Golden Bridle" It's a relatively resent episode and I would encourage you to listen to it.
      http://www.blogtalkradio.com/avoicef...-golden-bridle

      I'm not convinced that a system of self interest rather than duty will promote the best outcome for society either. Duty taken to it's extreme, creates slaves. Self interest taken to it's extreme, creates narcissists and serial killers. I'm also not sure how self interest effects the zeta male. Traditionally a man would want to become wealthy and powerful which would facilitate him being able to start a of harem of some sort, whether that be a literal harem of women to have sex with or a sort of philosophical Harem like the American Democrat politicians seem to pander to. So a zeta male has to ask himself, what do I really want out of life? What will getting wealth and power to live beyond that which allows me to live comfortably do besides create more problems and stress? Self interest can actually lead to a very bad thing for society, for instance Japan's "grass eaters movement" in which they have a large number of men who not interested in getting married and are only getting part time jobs to support themselves and their hobbies. They live comfortably but aren't putting very much more in to the system then they are taking out.

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      • #4
        RE: Sense of Duty and the Zeta Male

        I agree with TheUprightMan on the concept of duty. I do, however, think that honour is a way of shaming men. After all, what more is "honour" than some title bestowed on someone to make them feel proud? I don't have much to say about courage, but I am against how men are expected to "tough it up" even in extremely dangerous situations, and women are protected in situations that are even just remotely dangerous.

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        • #5
          RE: Sense of Duty and the Zeta Male

          Originally posted by Zerbu
          I agree with TheUprightMan on the concept of duty. I do, however, think that honour is a way of shaming men. After all, what more is "honour" than some title bestowed on someone to make them feel proud? I don't have much to say about courage, but I am against how men are expected to "tough it up" even in extremely dangerous situations, and women are protected in situations that are even just remotely dangerous.
          I was hoping to save discussions for Honor (I'm not misspelling it, that's just how it's spelled in the US) for it's own thread to prevent the conversation from splitting off in too many directions. To even begin talking about it we would have to properly define it.

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          • #6
            RE: Sense of Duty and the Zeta Male

            practice duty to earned trust

            when someone helps you fix your house its your duty to go help them fix theirs when they need your help,,end of

            earned not given.
            The only thing that resembles "The Patriarchy" these days is Feminism itself.

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            • #7
              RE: Sense of Duty and the Zeta Male

              True, but assigning duty to a biological demograph is a whole different story.

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              • #8
                RE: Sense of Duty and the Zeta Male

                We might want to avoid falling in to the trap of assuming all duty is based on men being of utility to women. For instance one can have a sense of duty to their employer. If a person is entrusted with valuable secrets by their employer they aught to feel a sense of duty to their employer for that trust. In this case a person who is not dutiful might betray that employer for profit.

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                • #9
                  RE: Sense of Duty and the Zeta Male

                  Originally posted by Zerbu
                  True, but assigning duty to a biological demograph is a whole different story.
                  i dont have a duty obligation to any gender male or female im my own man and will be there for people who meet me halfway this has worked out the best for me in my life (family ect included)
                  The only thing that resembles "The Patriarchy" these days is Feminism itself.

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                  • #10
                    RE: Sense of Duty and the Zeta Male

                    Originally posted by Rog
                    i dont have a duty obligation to any gender male or female im my own man and will be there for people who meet me halfway this has worked out the best for me in my life (family ect included)
                    You have a completely valid point of view. I agree that ones sense of duty to others is, for the most part, up to ones self to decide upon. However, this is not the only form of duty. What about ones duty do society? It is the duty of the members of a society to pay taxes to support the public infrastructure. Are you also obligated to put more in to society than you take out? Your labor can lead to the improvement of your society so should you feel some obligation to contribute more than you need to get by? What about war? If your nation was attacked would you be willing to fight to defend your nation? If you aren't fighting to protect others out of duty, why fight? There is so much that I am left wondering about with respect to duty.

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                    • #11
                      RE: Sense of Duty and the Zeta Male

                      The problem is not the concept of duty itself, but the fact that many of these duties are only required by men. People don't choose their biological demographs, so it is very unfair to force requirements on them.

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                      • #12
                        RE: Sense of Duty and the Zeta Male

                        Originally posted by Zerbu
                        The problem is not the concept of duty itself, but the fact that many of these duties are only required by men. People don't choose their biological demographs, so it is very unfair to force requirements on them.
                        So, in a society of equality which duties should remain?

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                        • #13
                          RE: Sense of Duty and the Zeta Male

                          its societies duty to strive against having wars and its military "volunteers" duty to protect the freedom to do so,, for me personaly its my duty to ensure that the gasoline that powers your cars keeps flowing and that the buildings you walk into are safe (because that is what i have "chosen" for myself) duty thru choice is one thing but for me i dont believe in duty because of imagined obligation (this is what takes away freedom of choice and gets people killed in foreign countries over money/oilfields) the only thing i would like to see is anonymous voting for the military done once a year to continue hostile action or not (they are the ones dieing and they should be the ones saying weather or not they should stay and fight not people who fly first class and have never in their lives put in a hard days work...)
                          The only thing that resembles "The Patriarchy" these days is Feminism itself.

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