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  • #16
    Originally posted by mik1 View Post
    Feminism has been going on for a long time, and privileges are added for women everyday. Men's rights groups on the other hand have accomplished very little, through no fault of their own. You see, as long as ~90% of men pander to women, and 90% of women pander to women, we are going to be stuck. Sure we can gradually lower the number of white knights, but it will take a long while to reach 90% of men standing up for their rights.

    I view this forum as a fun place to identify the poisoned well for what it is, and to vent frustrations, but I have no illusions that we are moving at anything more than a snails pace toward men's rights. Unless you discover the cure for aging you are unlikely to see a paradigm shift in your lifetime. Well I suppose violent societal collapse brought on by certain third world nations is a possibility, but it doesn't sound particularly pleasant, and will likely only balance gender rights via the removal of rights in general.
    Yup, I think there is merit in this observation.

    First issues of men's rights I got involved in, many years ago, got completely shut down. Just silently cut out. I managed to get one tiny response from a councillor who said the 'feminists would never allow it'. I was young at the time, the answer didn't make much sense. It was a request I'd supported for a men's ex offenders group to be allowed to form a support group because many of them had suffered sexual and violent abuse as children.

    Then I got involved with youth problems, and listened to boys who were desperate for the presence of strong male role models to offer them some direction and safety to be themselves, in their violent ghettoised lives. Even when one knifed another to death, the system responded with not just silence but the place I worked ordered that no one was allowed to talk to the media.

    A few suicides and deaths later I came here, after a long trawl through feminist dominated sources (many of which I didn't know that when reading them) to try to get some handle or understanding on what was going on.

    Here an answer was plainly said 'there is an empathy gap' it wasn't an answer to the problem but it wasn't a lie, it wasn't silence, it wasn't rejection that the problem exists. That was useful for me.

    I watched the videos, much like everyone found Karen Straughan a breath of fresh air, watched the first ICMI from the write ups and video releases, followed the news. There were some emergences, I got a bit of hope. Then saw a backlash, all over the circles I moved in people would say yeah such and such is wrong, like circumcision or male suicide but there second statement was 'but those MRA's are fucking evil bastards, I don't hold with them at all'. It was all just surreal and wtf. Good people that I knew had such a wrong impression and a massively closed mind. Well now we got the The Red Pill movie, a lot more volumes of work and better developed arguments. MRM supporters are often far better informed on even feminist issues than your average feminist, and far better informed than 99% of the general public.

    Tortoise and hare, snail's pace don't matter, does it really?
    "...especially when it comes to communication, it can be observed, if it is not a negotiation it's a war."
    Originally posted by menrppl2
    Can't live with em, life is great without them.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by mik1 View Post
      Alright, this should be an interesting topic. So a little history about me, I was a virgin until ~24, and then I decided to deal with that problem by spending some time with a pro. Of course it didn't stop there, and I'd estimate I've seen ~15 different women over the course of a year.
      I took all the usual precautions of course, but what they don't tell you in this fun time hookup culture is that not all std's can be avoided by wearing a condom. Hpv and Herpes seem to be the main culprits for stds that a massive percentage of sexually active adults are infected with, often without any visible symptoms.

      Hpv can cause various types of cancer, although it is rare that this occurs. Usually hpv is flushed from the body with no long term symptoms. Herpes is much less dangerous, although in rare cases it can spread to the brain and is somewhat dangerous to infants during child birth.
      From what I have read, many people go their entire lives without having a visible Herpes outbreak, even though they are still capable of transmitting the virus via inconspicuous shedding. Others may occasionally have an outbreak, but it might not progress to visible sores, only going so far as a mild irritation/itch.
      Then of course there are the poor unlucky saps who have full blown visible outbreaks, sores, and scabbing. These are the poor saps that actually have to own up to the fact that they most definitely have herpes, and face the social stigma attached.

      Since condoms are only ~50% effective at preventing Herpes, and it can be spread even when an outbreak isn't occurring, I didn't really believe I'd be able to avoid it forever. As far as I can tell I seem to be a moderate case, a bit of itchiness during an outbreak and no other visible signs. Since they don't have a blood test available for Herps in my part of the world (they only test if sores are visible), I'm pretty much stuck knowing I probably have it but don't "officially" have it.
      I'm not really sure what all the fuss is about, there seems to be a lot of ignorance and a lot of social distancing occurring for something that is essentially little more a nuisance than the common cold. Something that many people probably already have but don't have symptoms, so they can maintain their precious "clean" status.

      I remember a rather intriguing conversation I had with a whore wherein I asked her what she does to protect herself. She was genuinely surprised at the notion that Herpes is often asymptomatic and easily transferable even with condoms, and she was one of the brighter ones.
      So I'm in a bit of a conundrum, as much as I'd like to crush this compulsive honesty bug and just do whatever the hell I like, I know it probably wouldn't do good things for my mental health long term.
      So I leave the discussion to you, the community at large. What would you do if you we're ~75% certain you had herpes but didn't have an official status? Ignore it, disclose everything on the first date, or perhaps only disclose if the topic of stds comes up?

      I feel as though I'm leaning towards a "fuck it" attitude. Perhaps if the medical community took education and prevention of Herps a little more seriously, and there was less societal alarmist thinking surrounding the topic, I might be a little more inclined to think people deserve honesty. I do wonder what's worse, someone born dishonest, or someone compulsively honest who would do anything to get the honesty monkey off their back...
      I seem to have a lot less sympathy for pros than I do for the average girl "innocently" looking to rope a guy into an ltr. Perhaps it's because pros should really already know what they are getting into, or maybe I'm just jaded because I probably got this itch from a pro.

      You should probably tattoo it to your forehead in big, bold letters...

      ;-)

      Seriously though, I agree with the other folks here. No need to say anything unless things are headed for the bedroom, and then I would say that your partner has the full right to know.
      FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
      It's time to call it out for what it is.



      The World of Men - Men's Rights / MGTOW / Sites of Interest to Men

      http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showt...nterest-to-Men

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      • #18
        Originally posted by mik1 View Post
        What would you do if you we're ~75% certain you had herpes but didn't have an official status?
        Item #1: Go to a doctor and take a test to get a diagnosis

        Ignore it, disclose everything on the first date, or perhaps only disclose if the topic of stds comes up?
        One method of producing alternatives for an answer is to apply the Golden Rule: Reverse the situation.
        Would you want someone who think they may have herpes to tell you this before they took you to bed?
        What conclusions does one draw from a "yes" or a "no" here?

        A variant of a Kantian approach is to ask: "How sure are you of not getting caught?"
        What conclusions does one draw from an "impossible" or a "guaranteed" here?

        Going to bed with someone you know has herpes is a choice. If you don't have the information, there is no choice.
        IOW, withholding information is to withhold not only information, but the freedom of choice.
        One might justly refuse to share information with people when that info is none of their business, but volunteering to share an STD wiht others doesn't fall into the same category, does it?

        Perhaps if .... there was less societal alarmist thinking surrounding the topic, I might be a little more inclined to think people deserve honesty.
        Is punishing them one by one by inflicting herpes on them a) the proper sanction and b) pronounced by the proper judge?

        M

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        • #19
          Just realized I was providing the prevalence of Herpes among sex workers, corrected that. Type 1 Herpes is much more common at around 65% of the adult population (estimate vary wildly due to the undiagnosed asymptomatic carriers). Type 2 is less common, at around 20%.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by mik1 View Post
            I have no illusions that we are moving at anything more than a snails pace toward men's rights. Unless you discover the cure for aging you are unlikely to see a paradigm shift in your lifetime.
            'It's hard to make prophecies, especially about the future', as the saying goes.
            Looking back at some of the shifts that have occurred over the last four or five decades alone, many even without much of a "campaign" to push them, most of them would have looked rather improbable at the outset.
            A bit like a statistical analysis of the conjecture that adding 1 to another number will at any time produce the number '1 million'. At one point the odds will be 999 999:0 against this conjecture being true.
            I won't make prophecies, either, but I hope that the snail slog is more like the strong man pulling the semi-trailer: the first minute of moving the load from a standstill to start rolling is the hardest.
            You strain and strain and it's like nothing happens. Then, suddenly, imperceptibly, there s motion, the wheels begin to turn, ever so slowly.
            After that, it just gets easier.
            "Big Red" made for just a short clip on youtube, but helped substantially in elevating MRA issues from "the dark underbelly of the Internet" into the mainstream conversation.

            Well I suppose violent societal collapse brought on by certain third world nations is a possibility, but it doesn't sound particularly pleasant, and will likely only balance gender rights via the removal of rights in general.
            Yes. Another scenario is a general decline in Western affluence as Asia rises to its full material might.
            Life getting poorer and harder is a sure-fire way to make traditional gender roles reemerge.

            M

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Manalysis View Post
              Item #1: Go to a doctor and take a test to get a diagnosis


              One method of producing alternatives for an answer is to apply the Golden Rule: Reverse the situation.
              Would you want someone who think they may have herpes to tell you this before they took you to bed?
              What conclusions does one draw from a "yes" or a "no" here?

              A variant of a Kantian approach is to ask: "How sure are you of not getting caught?"
              What conclusions does one draw from an "impossible" or a "guaranteed" here?

              Going to bed with someone you know has herpes is a choice. If you don't have the information, there is no choice.
              IOW, withholding information is to withhold not only information, but the freedom of choice.
              One might justly refuse to share information with people when that info is none of their business, but volunteering to share an STD wiht others doesn't fall into the same category, does it?


              Is punishing them one by one by inflicting herpes on them a) the proper sanction and b) pronounced by the proper judge?

              M
              I've already covered that a diagnosis is difficult here.
              Seeing as estimate put the count of infected individuals as high as 80% of the population, I would have to default to the assumption that they have it and just aren't aware/showing symptoms.
              I honestly have little concern about it, many people contract herpes type 1 in childhood from kissing their parents. So I have to assume that I already have herpes 1, and I understand the 2 strains are so similar as to not really make too much of a difference. If anything herpes 1 appears more likely to spread to other parts of the body. No one with an ounce of medical knowledge takes herpes seriously because nearly everyone already has it, blood tests aren't available in my area.

              The only test available is a swab of herpes sores, and I don't have those, but itching is consistent with either herpes or a yeast infection. Again it doesn't matter though, odds are I have herpes 1 along with at least 50% to upwards of 80% of the adult population.
              Don't you get it? The stigma is the problem, the ignorance is the problem. Here I am with the bullshit moral dilemna that doesn't even make sense, well over the majority of humans on this earth have herps, it's a fact! I shouldn't have to keep repeating that for everyone that chimes in here thinking herps is some sort of rarity.
              Last edited by mik1; 03-18-2017, 07:22 PM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by mik1 View Post
                Seeing as estimate put the count of infected individuals as high as 80% of the population, I would have to default to the assumption that they have it and just aren't aware/showing symptoms.
                ...or they just havent been fucked by you yet.

                read that line however you want
                "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

                And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. - Donne

                "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
                "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

                "What remains for most men in modern life is a world of expectation without reward, burden without honor and service without self" - Paul Elam

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Manalysis View Post
                  'It's hard to make prophecies, especially about the future', as the saying goes.
                  Looking back at some of the shifts that have occurred over the last four or five decades alone, many even without much of a "campaign" to push them, most of them would have looked rather improbable at the outset.
                  A bit like a statistical analysis of the conjecture that adding 1 to another number will at any time produce the number '1 million'. At one point the odds will be 999 999:0 against this conjecture being true.
                  I won't make prophecies, either, but I hope that the snail slog is more like the strong man pulling the semi-trailer: the first minute of moving the load from a standstill to start rolling is the hardest.
                  You strain and strain and it's like nothing happens. Then, suddenly, imperceptibly, there s motion, the wheels begin to turn, ever so slowly.
                  After that, it just gets easier.
                  "Big Red" made for just a short clip on youtube, but helped substantially in elevating MRA issues from "the dark underbelly of the Internet" into the mainstream conversation.


                  Yes. Another scenario is a general decline in Western affluence as Asia rises to its full material might.
                  Life getting poorer and harder is a sure-fire way to make traditional gender roles reemerge.

                  M
                  You know, I don't think I've made a point since joining here that you haven't contested
                  I happen to hold the belief that shit is in fact not edible confections, what say you to that???

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by MatrixTransform View Post
                    ...or they just havent been fucked by you yet.

                    read that line however you want
                    Then they shouldn't be having sex...if your goal is to avoid herpes knowing that upwards of 80% of the world's population has it, you might want to be somewhat selective in your choice of partners, assuming you didn't already contract it before adulthood.
                    If someone directly asks me for an std record, I'm not going to lie to their face, but whores and one night stands are a different story, why am I the one with all the responsibility?
                    Last edited by mik1; 03-18-2017, 07:31 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      are you trying to give the remaining 20% (which may or may not be unfuckable) herpes as well.

                      another thread about your cock?

                      you seem mik1 to have a lot of uncertainty and ethical dilemmas with your dick.

                      whats going on there?
                      "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

                      And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. - Donne

                      "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
                      "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

                      "What remains for most men in modern life is a world of expectation without reward, burden without honor and service without self" - Paul Elam

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by MatrixTransform View Post
                        are you trying to give the remaining 20% (which may or may not be unfuckable) herpes as well.

                        another thread about your cock?

                        you seem mik1 to have a lot of uncertainty and ethical dilemmas with your dick.

                        whats going on there?
                        I don't know that I'd go so far as "ethical dilemmas, but the inability to get a vasectomy and the ignorance of the general population in regards to herpes/stds certainly pisses me off enough to rant about.
                        I've another dilemma for you, It seems I've lost the genetic lottery and only measure up to a mere 12" in length, I'm ever so worried that I will be inadequate in pleasing the women folk who are undoubtedly accustomed to a much larger dickhead such as yourself?
                        Last edited by mik1; 03-18-2017, 07:38 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          anyway, while winding you up is fun ...

                          A decade ago, I had the unfortunate experience of finding out I had herpes when my GF at the time had an outbreak.
                          She of course accused me of having known and not told her which, wasn't true

                          btw, this is an ethical problem you now have.

                          sounds to me like yr back to the fundamental question you posed the first time.

                          ...should you lie for sex?
                          "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

                          And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. - Donne

                          "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
                          "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

                          "What remains for most men in modern life is a world of expectation without reward, burden without honor and service without self" - Paul Elam

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by MatrixTransform View Post
                            anyway, while winding you up is fun ...

                            A decade ago, I had the unfortunate experience of finding out I had herpes when my GF at the time had an outbreak.
                            She of course accused me of having known and not told her which, wasn't true

                            btw, this is an ethical problem you now have.

                            sounds to me like yr back to the fundamental question you posed the first time.

                            ...should you lie for sex?
                            Probably not, I guess all I can do is educate for sex. Those who have herpes and know it won't mind, those who don't know will just have to either respond rationally to the wake up call, that they might be an uninfected minority through some stroke of luck, or they can go live under a rock/spend the rest of their lives in a blue pill marriage.
                            Sounds like you've already experienced the ignorance first hand.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Still though, people need to take some responsibility for their own sexual health. Pros should know what they are getting into, while I wouldn't knowingly deceive them, they should know that I statistically likely have herpes even if I don't have concrete evidence of it, nor any way to test for it in my province. For fuck sakes I shouldn't have to take time out of what I paid for to give a seminar on sexual health to a woman that makes her living having sex. Can we at least agree on that?
                              Relationships, sure disclosure is best. Pros, take part of the exorbitant payment for little actual work and use it to spend 10 fucking minutes on google to educate yourself.
                              Last edited by mik1; 03-18-2017, 08:02 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by mik1 View Post
                                Probably not, I guess all I can do is educate for sex.

                                with all that glorious manhood of yours covered in spotty pustules I suspect it wouldn't be hard to miss the diagnosis.

                                so lemme get this straight, your saying that you cant get get sex fair and square.
                                So you pay for it.
                                and now that potentially have the herpes you cant work out what to do next.

                                but you really deep down, consider yrself a teacher.

                                LOL... you continue with the lessons typhoid mary
                                "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

                                And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. - Donne

                                "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
                                "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

                                "What remains for most men in modern life is a world of expectation without reward, burden without honor and service without self" - Paul Elam

                                Comment

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