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Roe VS Wade

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  • #16
    RE: Roe VS Wade

    Originally posted by Rog
    my memory is failing me on nonoxodil but if another mra could help me here what was the name of the spermacide used in condoms?

    edit.
    found it

    "Nonoxynol 9"

    and again you cast doubt on Dr.Coutinho, you havent made one statement where you just accept him at his word even tho with a little digging you found the conference he was talking about. but i think here he is given the benifit of the doubt more than in feminists circles
    Aha. Nonoxynol 9 was banned because after a study of its effectiveness, scientists came to the conclusion that not only did it not offer special protection against HIV, the people who had used condoms with Nonoxynol 9 had become infected with HIV at a 50% higher rate than people who used a different gel. It also seemed to allow the transmission of other STDs, like HPVs, at a much higher rate. There's not some sort of conspiracy against men going on here, it's for people's safety.

    Of course I'm not going to accept everything this guy says: if I did, I'd now believe that there had been a World Population Conference in Budapest, while the thing actually happened in Bucharest. That's not the point though: this isn't so much about doubting him, this is about thinking that the conclusions you guys came to based on this video are wrong. I'll just repeat what I said before:

    "I just don't believe that that is what stopped the male pill (he even says it himself, the pill was denied by the Health Ministry of Brazil for other reasons), nor do I believe that you can use an incident on a Conference in communist Bucharest that happened 38 years ago to judge feminists today."

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    • #17
      RE: Roe VS Wade

      "Aha. Nonoxynol 9 was banned because after a study of its effectiveness, scientists came to the conclusion that not only did it not offer special protection against HIV, the people who had used condoms with Nonoxynol 9 had become infected with HIV at a 50% higher rate than people who used a different gel. It also seemed to allow the transmission of other STDs, like HPVs, at a much higher rate. There's not some sort of conspiracy against men going on here, it's for people's safety."

      ok i will accept that but could you tell me why then i cant find many condoms with spermicide now(even other kinds of spermicide)?

      as far as Dr. Coutinho goes i would still say one incident that happened ages ago is more telling than all the PC media friendly officially accepted stand on this that feminists claim to have today.. proof is in the pudding and theres many many cases where feminists claim to want equality but their actions speak otherwise..

      for instance

      feminists claim to want equality but i have yet to see a single feminist actively campaigning to have womens minority status removed? women make up more than half the population more than half the employed more than half the voters(reflected in spending regardless that the figureheads are men),more than half the college grads and spend more than 80% of the disposable income,, the only place women are a minority anymore is in prison.. how can they claim to want equality without giving up this privileged status that provides them funding? should they be taken seriously before this happens?
      The only thing that resembles "The Patriarchy" these days is Feminism itself.

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      • #18
        RE: Roe VS Wade

        Thanks Tim

        In every media story I've ever seen about the male pill, a woman only is asked for comment and without exception every one was against the idea. The usual reason was that men would tell women that they have taken it when they haven't. That guy you linked to was spivelling nonsensence.

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        • #19
          RE: Roe VS Wade

          I think a lot of men at present are wary about taking a pill that messes with their fertility because they just don't know anything about it. There's a mock news show here in Oz that tackled the idea briefly, and one of the 'people on the street' they asked whether he'd take it was a fellow who said 'Oh, yeah, I guess? It depends on how it works.'

          Which they promptly derided as him not knowing how a pill works ('Yeah, I think you swallow it with some water, mate.' *audience laughter*). Low hanging fruit, but whatever. It underlines that there's just no knowledge out there about a male pill. No-one wants to be that first man who takes one and discovers he's just been chemically castrated by accident, either, I imagine. So the wariness is understandable. I have to wonder if the same kind of attitudes existed when the female pill was being introduced.

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          • #20
            RE: Roe VS Wade

            Originally posted by Imdefender
            Originally posted by Zerbu
            Case in point, male rape victims who are forced to pay.
            I have no doubt that this happens.
            The problem i have had with this argument is that we have no face to put to that clam it would be better if we could say see "x" person here and this is his story
            Imdefender, a google search turned up a lot of examples, here is one from our own articles:

            http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/legally-obscene/

            http://www.google.com/#q=male+rape+victim+forced+to+pay+child+support&hl =en&safe=off&prmd=imvns&ei=FYlsUPjiJqn5iwKt_4CwDA& start=0&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=190c3c 85d32a41e8&biw=1054&bih=602
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr_OpFxCx-A What will you do without freedom?

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            • #21
              RE: Roe VS Wade

              Originally posted by Sgt. Griff
              Not trolling.

              Lime juice. Punching in the stomach. Pushing down stairs. They seem to be the only reproductive rights we have at the moment but they're brutal, terrible things to do.
              Violence is not a reproductive right Sgt. Griff. With that said, men have no reproductive rights currently.
              De oppresso liber

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              • #22
                RE: Roe VS Wade

                Originally posted by Skull_Leader
                Morning after pills still exist, so the "I don't believe in abortion" argument is bull too.
                You do realize that those who are staunchly pro-life regard the morning after pill as abortion as well. Not as messy, easier to obtain but still ends a life.

                Just presenting the facts here.
                [hr]
                Originally posted by Skull_Leader
                Morning after pills still exist, so the "I don't believe in abortion" argument is bull too.
                You do realize that those who are staunchly pro-life regard the morning after pill as abortion as well. Not as messy, easier to obtain but still ends a life.

                Just presenting the facts here.
                Womanhood Embraced

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                • #23
                  RE: Roe VS Wade

                  Americans love their Roe vs Wade,
                  You take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.....

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                  • #24
                    RE: Roe VS Wade

                    Why does everyone seem to consider birth control a zero sum game? Either he takes it or she takes it? It should be both people taking it (if, that is, a male birth control pill were available). It makes no sense to say, "What if they deceive us by not taking their pill but saying they have?" Um. . . it isn't a problem, because you should also be taking your pill? Of course, that thought is a healthy one for every woman to have. Puts the shoe on the other foot. Makes them realize that, hey, yeah, it would pretty freaking awful for someone to lie about something so important and change your life forever, wouldn't it?

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                    • #25
                      RE: Roe VS Wade

                      Originally posted by Wendy
                      Why does everyone seem to consider birth control a zero sum game? Either he takes it or she takes it? It should be both people taking it (if, that is, a male birth control pill were available)[...]
                      precisely.

                      I think men would be fine with using a mbc, and I think women would also support this. I'm not too sure why, or where, this narrative of 'men can't be "trusted" to take birth control' arose, but that attitude ( a by-product of society considering men 'irresponsible' ? ) is counter-productive.
                      Sadly, its prevalence also lends itself to conspiracy theories arising about why there is still no mbc...

                      ps. btw, it seems that birth control for men may be aiming to obtain funding, next month (March 2013) in the USA. It is not a pill, though - see discussion...
                      "Dad, why is it 'Fatherland', but 'mother-tongue' ?" ... "Son, because Men build civilisation. Women talk."
                      Feminism is just another Apartheid: legally-sanctioned discrimination.

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                      • #26
                        RE: Roe VS Wade

                        "I'm not too sure why, or where, this narrative of 'men can't be "trusted" to take birth control' arose"

                        Maybe projection

                        Update: Related: Jane Roe speaks
                        The MRM Glossary - From Zero to Hero MRA :P

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                        • #27
                          RE: Roe VS Wade

                          Originally posted by dhanu
                          "I'm not too sure why, or where, this narrative of 'men can't be "trusted" to take birth control' arose"

                          Maybe projection
                          Doesn't it also show a gynocentric point of view on the issue? It's almost like saying "If men have birth control, women shouldn't be expected to take care of it themselves; it's all up to the man to take or not take the pill." In this narrative, it actually makes sense to adopt the "men can't be trusted" position. If women are expecting men to do everything for them, there will naturally be some men that fail to do so. Then again, that would feed right back in to the victim narrative.

                          Of course, I'm of the opinion that the person not wanting the sex to result in a pregnancy is the one responsible for taking the pill, and that in many cases this should result on doubling up. Why leave everything to your partner when you have a cheap security method?

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Tim Fidler View Post
                            Anyway, feminists of all people should know that consent to sex is not consent to having a child. A male pill would be a perfect solution, and that solution is well on its way (about time).
                            I wouldn't be so sure about that. Many feminists will tell you that if you don't want to become a father, keep your dick in your pants. Many feminists do not believe that men can be raped, or that it is a traumatizing thing for men. When pressed further, they will say that consenting to have sex is consenting to the consequences of having a child, and this doesn't conflict with their view on abortion because fetuses do not have any rights but children do.

                            Also, I think contraception is a treatment but not a cure. The real solution is a system where men opt-in to the rights and responsibilities of fatherhood. If a society legalized the shooting of men, we shouldn't think that bullet proof vests are the solution just because wearing them would easier than taking on male disposablility.

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