I originally started off this post as a reply to Mr_e & Plummer, but it's turned into a thread that I now want to share with others.
mr_e
- First things first, I don't think I can bear watching sick children suffer, and I can't imagine the agony you went through watching your own child go through that ordeal. I hope that everyone is doing well now, healthy and happy. Word of advice on illness: stay clear of sugar; its immediate effect on the immune system is devastating. Word of advice when healthy: stay clear of sugar, yes it's that bad. I'm very familiar with The Fairly Odd Parents because it was the same exact program I was watching when my parents walked into the living room, turned on the dvd player, and sat me down to watch the movie Gandhi. Funny you should mention that show right now.
- Look mr_e, I am a third generation atheist, and I don't have a single religious relative in my family, immediate or extended. My parents raised me based on core principles that were drilled into all of us throughout childhood. They would say, "Dee, take everything you see within a critical mindset, including our own opinions. Be grateful for the gift of the Mind, which you can cultivate beyond measure. And you are only as worthy as how you treat others, how well you behave and how hard you work in life." Needless to say, I had an extraordinary childhood that established a solid foundation for me to continuously grow.
I think it's important to share this because I am now aware that we're on two different wavelengths, which isn't fair to either of us. I'm reaching out in hope that someone might reach back in order for us to learn from each other through this forum. I'm an atheist, yet I often catch myself looking at believers in complete awe, mesmerized over the inexplicable relationship they have with this supreme being they look up to. I'm not a believer but I do have faith .. in people, and I've always taken extreme offense at crude jokes atheists make about god, Jesus, and religion. And I often wonder, when has separation of church and state transformed from eradicating religious authority to maliciously attacking people's core beliefs that they hold so dear? It's unfair, pointless, and cruel .. and I personally find it very hurtful.
You don't have to be the person under attack to see injustice and feel the pain of "the other," which is exactly why I made a point of explaining just how cruel and inhumane all these feminist writings were. Upon reading the writings to which you initially referred me 2 weeks ago, I felt it a priority to tell you how dangerous such ideologies were, dangerous to the point of actually legitimizing your abuse. And I really thought you understood what I was trying to tell you because of that precise phrase. Anyone familiar with the term "legislated abuse" would automatically associate it with humans' darkest hours: slavery, the apartheid, colonization, the dehumanization of Jews and more. That's why I used this specific term, to let you know you're on very dangerous grounds as men.
But you didn't want to hear that did you, mr_e? I doubt you even took note of it. Cuz you came back with the same discourse that revolved around emotions rather than actual problems and reality.
I came in here to learn and was intently curious about why all these men were voicing out so many concerns. I may not know a lot about men, but I do know they don't complain much, which is probably one of the reasons most of them die off before their spouses. So I figured there had to be a legitimate reason for them to speak out now, and it turned out I was right. The reason I say I was right is because I took the effort to learn about first, second, and third wave feminism within a critical mindset, a sense of justice, and a genuine eagerness to learn.
And I realized what the main problem was almost immediately upon reading about second wave feminism, which as I explained earlier laid the foundation of what I now call "the legislated abuse of men." From then on, I started writing, to you and to other members, about how destructive the laws were regarding: marital property laws, reproductive rights, domestic abuse, and child custody and support to say the least. I explained in previous entries how dysfunctional these laws were as they re-defined marriage as a defective victim/abuser relationship, and I characterized the mentality behind it as sick. Now, try to understand that this is coming from someone who grew up in a "feminist-based system" as many would phrase it, and who has little to no background on MRA. Yet, I was able to come up with these conclusions right off the bat by briefly reading about these issues, influenced only by reason and sense of justice.
And after taking off some time to watch The Red Pill last night, I found out that these were some of the main issues that were brought up, which I was able to realize on my own. True, maybe they were discussed or handled differently, but we were pretty much in total agreement. The first thing that came to mind after watching it was .. this ain't no red pill, this is the reality in which we live loud and clear. The only thing that kinda bothered me about the film though was when an MRA activist initiated a "defense" about how MRA isn't about sexism or keeping a woman barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. I didn't think it was fair to him to bring up or defend himself against a crime he didn't commit. It's a position feminists place you in and want you to speak out from within. However, it was a great start in documentary film.
But disregard that last note about the film, which I saw just last night, why didn't you hear me when I pointed out all these issues to you earlier? The thing is, mr_e, I came in here to learn about you .. and I did. Why don't you attempt to understand me?
I think it's because of that "hate discourse" that you're so intent on bearing despite its obvious and unnecessary strain on you.
And speaking of hate, I really don't know why voidspawn, and probably yourself and others, thought I was hurt because of the words you phrased about women; maybe it had to do with how you perceive and understand things. I wasn't crying for me, mr_e, I was crying for you. I was crying over the agony you must be feeling and the huge amount of love that's needed to restore what you do not possess anymore. Watching someone say such things is like watching a slaughtered person who's still writhing to stay alive, and it's a painful sight to watch. It was also very strange to hear voidspawn suggest that I felt threatened. Why should I feel threatened when it was your humanity at risk, your soul that's being slaughtered, and your life in ruins.
It is a thousand times better to be wronged than it is to wrong someone; I'm strong enough to overcome other people's mistakes, but my own conscience will be the death of me. When I read those words you posted, I vowed to do my part and help alleviate the situation. And although I'm thankful for what voidspawn said about my "rising above hate," he was wrong. I wasn't rising above hate but above the entire situation, which allows you to understand and help, as well as transforms you into strength itself." And it's an indescribable feeling of positivity, power, and invincibility; it's what leaders are made out of. When you rise above the situation, you feel like a supreme being you feel like God.
But you don't wanna hear that. You'd rather I go, "Oh my gosh, now I understand what you're getting at, and how come I didn't see that before?" The thing is, I know where you're coming from, so why don't you try to see my standpoint? You'd rather I march right next to you saying "they hate us" and all that bullshit. Well I'm sorry, I'm an objective person and believe that objectivity is the key to resolving issues. This is the main difference between you and me, and I'll show you how.
When you first posted the feminist writings 2 weeks ago, I immediately read them and understood the resentment behind them. Since it was second-wave feminist writings, my immediate reaction was to look up the legislation they created because such discourse is sick, which I also pointed out earlier. And upon primary research, I concluded that these laws were indeed as unjust as these writings were sick, which I also mentioned. And the thing about hate is, it doesn't hurt as much as legislation does, so when all these resentful women (and deluded men) created these laws based off these sentiments, they instigated something much more damaging than hate: the legitimized abuse of men.
That's how I reacted to such writings, whereas you're still hung up on re-reading them rather than change your discourse to attain your rights. Hate is part of life and who we are as people, but transforming hateful discourse into policy is another much more dangerous matter, which is what happened in your situation. Also, hate is a human attribute and dies off when the person dies. And believe it or not, that hate died off when these second-wave feminists died off, leaving you with nothing but a sorry ass, ****ed up legislation that dehumanizes you as husbands, fathers, and men.
I'll give you an example on this specific point. A new legislation comes out based on a similarly nasty resentful discourse permitting men to physically abuse their female spouses. Men wouldn't commit that act at first, but 10 years into the legislation, many men would. Yet even if I were to physically undergo that abuse myself, I wouldn't attribute it to hate but to the system that allows such behavior; that's of course if I were logic-based. Look at slavery or the apartheid if you can't see it yet, a time when many people were able to like and make friends with "the dehumanized other" yet felt it within their right to abuse them. That's because they don't see it as hateful but lawful.
So when a woman withholds child visitation rights, robs half your hard-earned income, or gets nasty about child support, she is only acting based on the law telling her that it's within her rights as a human being to do so. Hell, some couples even get back together and remarry after all that bullshit they go through, which only proves the destructive nature of these inhumane laws towards men. These women aren't born to hate men, they're trained by the system, and they've been trained for quite some time too.
Think about how an audience would perceive the MRAs on The Red Pill if they had gone on camera and all they said was, "Feminists hate us, they all hate us and they're all about hate." Think of how meaningless this would seem to the public. Instead, these men went on camera and rightfully disclosed real concerns that hundreds of thousands of men are facing and are silent about to this day.
But none of that registers with you since you're still carrying all these resentful statements you read a long time ago that were expressed by mostly dead people at this point. And that's because you're emotionally-based and would be probably be more distressed if someone says, "I hate you, mr_e" rather than "You're so unfair, mr_e," whereas I would be more disturbed by the latter statement; I don't mind being hated and wouldn't be influenced by it and would still treat that person fairly. I would, however, be very distressed if someone calls me unfair .. that would really hurt cuz it's what my constitution is all about. You're driven by emotions, and people like you tend to be very forgiving as well. (Plummer if you say shit test one more time I swear to God).
But now that we're on the subject, here's a little thing you might not know about hate, and regarding this forum too. I was going to mention this earlier, but decided against it because I didn't want to hurt you in any way. I now realize it was a bad decision because I believe that what I have to say is in the benefit of all of us. Plus, you can take it cuz you're a man and all men are strong. I know that this type of stereotyping might be considered in itself discriminatory but I don't care; men have been brutalized long enough, and there's nothing worse to me than the sight of a broken man.
As for resentment, here's my two cents:
I found the first traces of hate, which as I mentioned before is a human trait, through one of your own threads, mr_e; and I think that many of you might not perceive the hate within them due to your own preoccupation with the hate & injustice directed at you. In any case, it was a MGTOW video that mainly talked about how men should treat women, including things like "string her along unaware," or "get her down on her knees to do what she's good at," etc. I then watched other MGTOW videos by Howard Dare and others, which included phrases like "all women are pigs, and no matter how much makeup you put on a pig it's still a pig." There were a lotta phrases of course but this is to name a few; unfortunately, this was directed at all women rather than feminists and/or specific groups.
Now regardless of these insults, I was still able to pinpoint the reasons behind why men were so frustrated with some women and did think these points were valid. Yet, the discourse itself was indeed a hateful one, and I believe it's as dehumanizing as those sentiments you presented. Let's look at many MGTOWs point of view on "stringing a woman along without her knowledge," for example. I don't think there's anything wrong about not wanting to get married or attached, as long as you disclose such statement way ahead during the relationship; this is called having integrity.
If you have a girlfriend and you're MGTOW, the only decent and acceptable thing to do is to tell her that you're never getting married right from the start. And it's crucial that you disclose the reasons behind that because it'll help her understand what the hell you're going through as men within society, which in turn will yield immediate results on the behavior of many women, as well as yield positive results with respect to your own situation. This is called individual activism and a wonderful form of opposition as opposed to the crap some guys are pulling now. I find that MGTOW videos such as these only teach men to be manipulative, spineless cowards rather than have the integrity they should possess, especially since they're asking for fairness, equality, and respect. Go with integrity and it will guarantee you the best results.
You speak about hateful feminist sentiments, mr_e, and make it sound as if they were spoken just yesterday although it's been quite a while since the last horrific statement was made in that regard. In the meantime, and because you're so consumed with sentiments rather than objectivity, you fail to see the hateful discourse that's taking place right now, which is mostly expressed by anti-feminist men (and deluded women) of course. I'm not going to give you specific examples but will tell you that the entire discourse of many of these videos purely talks about "how all women are animals, how they are all whores, sluts, and liars .. that they're evil, dumb, conceited, and need to be treated like trash." I watched video after video that seemed to exude nothing but hate.
And although these videos aren't considered legislation, they do affect thousands of followers who keep hearing that women are animals and should be treated like trash, which is bad for everybody really. It also exasperates your current situation and problems rather than solve them. I was able to understand the reasons behind these resentful sentiments and the frustration that many men feel today due to being marginalized, but the situation needs be dealt with correctly. There's a huge difference between helping create a documentary that explains your situation, which is a responsible and effective way to go about things, and between spouting off about how women are cunts & bitches who deserve abuse.
You have real problems that have been going on for decades. You live in a society that incriminates "the very maleness" of you. For decades now, any normal masculine trait that you show, such as shouting or normal physical confrontation, has been viewed as an abnormal violent nature and met with restraint. Society equates your movement with racism and misogyny rather than one through which you can attain your basic rights as men. This is why you shouldn't resist people who do understand, as well as step up your game by being objective and fair in order to get more people concerned, supportive, and involved.
Your heart's in the right place, mr_e, and all that's left is objectivity to kick in.
Officer Plummer
- First of all .. you're so mainstream it's almost adorable. And an ex-cop too? This is gonna be kinda like batman vs superman. Btw I'm both characters, you just sit there and read your comic :-)
- Let me start off by saying .. what on planet earth have you been listening to? Awalt, Amalt, shit-tests? When'd you ditch your own common sense and why?
- Let me explain this whole mess about Awalt by giving you this example:
- What do automatically do when you're speaking to someone and ask him questions, and the person right next to him keeps answering for him? You immediately ask for that person to speak for himself, right?
- It's called the right to self-representation, which we're all entitled to as human beings. If I were to learn about men, I wouldn't ask a woman to describe them for me .. I'd ask men to represent themselves. So why on earth would you let men define who we are as women and speak on our behalf? Why not allow us self-representation, listen to us, and then make up your own mind?
- I define myself, Plummer, not you, not my parents, and definitely not some youtuber saying all kindsa stuff that don't describe me in the least bit. I say what I mean and always assume that people are telling the truth and hope I never change. It's ok to be careful and aware, I guess, but assuming the worst about people's intentions towards you (let alone a partner) is a major flaw and not a good way to live. I think that losing faith in others only mirrors loss of faith in ourselves, our own ability to give, to trust and to love.
- As for "vanity", I don't quite see it the way you do. I believe most men and women have intrinsic traits within them. Are you familiar with the saying, "Men are attracted to what they see, while women are attracted to what they hear." I was sitting at a coffee shop one time and an older lady asked to sit at my table after we exchanged a couple of words. I now understand that she might have been a feminist because she kept attributing male traits to women, to which I disagreed. She said that women were attracted by the male form just like men were attracted to ours, and that it wasn't fair for women to have such "restrictions" on their attire while men can roam around half naked without anybody batting an eye. And the funniest thing is, when I explained my thoughts on how fair this was because of men and women's different natures, she walked away after telling me that it's "Jesus-loving women like you that's ruining it for us." I didn't understand then but was just thankful she had left. Kept looking over my shoulder to see if she'd come back too.
- Women look nice for you guys, just like men look or stare at women because it's their nature. And the way men are currently ostracized just for staring at women speaks volumes about how anti-male society has become. Of course, looking nice does not mean abusing guys by being nasty. When a guy makes the effort to let you know you're cute and takes the risk of asking you out, you're automatically indebted to him, and the least a girl can do is say thank you and be pleasant about it. Being nasty to a guy asking you out is like being handed a flower only to toss it on the floor and stomp on it.
- I still remember when dad unexpectedly came back early from work one day, while mom was surrounded by me and two of my brothers working on homework. She was wearing her glasses, which dad apparently spotted. So he motioned for us to keep quiet, snuck up behind mom and went, "Gotcha!" She immediately took her glasses off and both of them started laughing so hard, and then he hugged her. My mom's very pretty, yet on that day I realized that he'd never seen her wearing her glasses. I thought it was very cute how mom always wants look nice for him.
- In essence, what you perceive as vanity, I perceive as an adherence to our natural traits as genders, which I hope never changes. I also believe that trying to look nice is a form of love between couples.
- Also, there's a big difference between looking nice and between having a flawed perception of things that are to be considered valuable, and the latter is something that the media is trying hard to spread. I think that designer items, for example, should be boycotted and that designer industry should be torn down. I believe that spending 300 dollars on some shoes simply because they carry the name of some dipshit, freak of a designer is a sin, especially given the fact that many people all over the world are dying off due to homelessness, disease-related illnesses, and hunger.
- And sadly, I think that the perception and relationship between many men and women is one that is currently built on suspicion and doubt, which leaves no room for hope or genuine happiness. I really hope I meet someone who hasn't been polluted by feminist or anti-feminist claims that men/women are bad so that we can build a healthy relationship together .. like a rancher up in Utah who's never heard of wifi.
- So I don't know what governs you, Plummer, but I'm planning on getting married and having four kids come hell or high water. And when I do get engaged, I'm gonna insist on choosing my own wedding ring to pick out the least expensive one out of consideration for his efforts in saving some money to get me something fancy. And when I do stay at home and receive my "allowance," I'm gonna spend it as scarcely as how hard he worked to earn it. This is not some cosmic wisdom or anything, merely an accurate awareness on what things really mean in life as opposed how they're inaccurately presented by others.
- Let's look at "domestic shelters", for example. The first thing they convey to women is that if you're in a relationship with a man, he will abuse you. I've always thought that having such shelters was wrong because it's pro-woman, one sided, and unfair. Let's suppose that my husband physically abused me, which is something that would never happen in reality cuz I wouldn't put myself in that position to begin with. But if it were to happen, the law would grant me the right to drag that man to jail without awarding him the chance to speak or actually learning about what happened. These domestic shelters don't give a damn if I were a loud mouth who constantly abused my partner emotionally to the point where he could only react how men instinctively react upon being severely threatened or cornered into confrontation .. hitting. That is both unfair and abusive.
- The thing is, there are legitimate concerns over the rights of men, and the best way to go about them is through raising our own self-awareness rather than spiral downward into more deluded misconceptions about one another.
- I have one life to live. This is my heaven and this is my hell. And I will steer my destiny according to my own morals, standards, and judgment rather than based on other people's convictions and thoughts. You should too.
- Try fitting that into one of your little categories, Officer.
- But I do appreciate you coming in here, mainstream, thinking you got game :-)
mr_e
- First things first, I don't think I can bear watching sick children suffer, and I can't imagine the agony you went through watching your own child go through that ordeal. I hope that everyone is doing well now, healthy and happy. Word of advice on illness: stay clear of sugar; its immediate effect on the immune system is devastating. Word of advice when healthy: stay clear of sugar, yes it's that bad. I'm very familiar with The Fairly Odd Parents because it was the same exact program I was watching when my parents walked into the living room, turned on the dvd player, and sat me down to watch the movie Gandhi. Funny you should mention that show right now.
- Look mr_e, I am a third generation atheist, and I don't have a single religious relative in my family, immediate or extended. My parents raised me based on core principles that were drilled into all of us throughout childhood. They would say, "Dee, take everything you see within a critical mindset, including our own opinions. Be grateful for the gift of the Mind, which you can cultivate beyond measure. And you are only as worthy as how you treat others, how well you behave and how hard you work in life." Needless to say, I had an extraordinary childhood that established a solid foundation for me to continuously grow.
I think it's important to share this because I am now aware that we're on two different wavelengths, which isn't fair to either of us. I'm reaching out in hope that someone might reach back in order for us to learn from each other through this forum. I'm an atheist, yet I often catch myself looking at believers in complete awe, mesmerized over the inexplicable relationship they have with this supreme being they look up to. I'm not a believer but I do have faith .. in people, and I've always taken extreme offense at crude jokes atheists make about god, Jesus, and religion. And I often wonder, when has separation of church and state transformed from eradicating religious authority to maliciously attacking people's core beliefs that they hold so dear? It's unfair, pointless, and cruel .. and I personally find it very hurtful.
You don't have to be the person under attack to see injustice and feel the pain of "the other," which is exactly why I made a point of explaining just how cruel and inhumane all these feminist writings were. Upon reading the writings to which you initially referred me 2 weeks ago, I felt it a priority to tell you how dangerous such ideologies were, dangerous to the point of actually legitimizing your abuse. And I really thought you understood what I was trying to tell you because of that precise phrase. Anyone familiar with the term "legislated abuse" would automatically associate it with humans' darkest hours: slavery, the apartheid, colonization, the dehumanization of Jews and more. That's why I used this specific term, to let you know you're on very dangerous grounds as men.
But you didn't want to hear that did you, mr_e? I doubt you even took note of it. Cuz you came back with the same discourse that revolved around emotions rather than actual problems and reality.
I came in here to learn and was intently curious about why all these men were voicing out so many concerns. I may not know a lot about men, but I do know they don't complain much, which is probably one of the reasons most of them die off before their spouses. So I figured there had to be a legitimate reason for them to speak out now, and it turned out I was right. The reason I say I was right is because I took the effort to learn about first, second, and third wave feminism within a critical mindset, a sense of justice, and a genuine eagerness to learn.
And I realized what the main problem was almost immediately upon reading about second wave feminism, which as I explained earlier laid the foundation of what I now call "the legislated abuse of men." From then on, I started writing, to you and to other members, about how destructive the laws were regarding: marital property laws, reproductive rights, domestic abuse, and child custody and support to say the least. I explained in previous entries how dysfunctional these laws were as they re-defined marriage as a defective victim/abuser relationship, and I characterized the mentality behind it as sick. Now, try to understand that this is coming from someone who grew up in a "feminist-based system" as many would phrase it, and who has little to no background on MRA. Yet, I was able to come up with these conclusions right off the bat by briefly reading about these issues, influenced only by reason and sense of justice.
And after taking off some time to watch The Red Pill last night, I found out that these were some of the main issues that were brought up, which I was able to realize on my own. True, maybe they were discussed or handled differently, but we were pretty much in total agreement. The first thing that came to mind after watching it was .. this ain't no red pill, this is the reality in which we live loud and clear. The only thing that kinda bothered me about the film though was when an MRA activist initiated a "defense" about how MRA isn't about sexism or keeping a woman barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. I didn't think it was fair to him to bring up or defend himself against a crime he didn't commit. It's a position feminists place you in and want you to speak out from within. However, it was a great start in documentary film.
But disregard that last note about the film, which I saw just last night, why didn't you hear me when I pointed out all these issues to you earlier? The thing is, mr_e, I came in here to learn about you .. and I did. Why don't you attempt to understand me?
I think it's because of that "hate discourse" that you're so intent on bearing despite its obvious and unnecessary strain on you.
And speaking of hate, I really don't know why voidspawn, and probably yourself and others, thought I was hurt because of the words you phrased about women; maybe it had to do with how you perceive and understand things. I wasn't crying for me, mr_e, I was crying for you. I was crying over the agony you must be feeling and the huge amount of love that's needed to restore what you do not possess anymore. Watching someone say such things is like watching a slaughtered person who's still writhing to stay alive, and it's a painful sight to watch. It was also very strange to hear voidspawn suggest that I felt threatened. Why should I feel threatened when it was your humanity at risk, your soul that's being slaughtered, and your life in ruins.
It is a thousand times better to be wronged than it is to wrong someone; I'm strong enough to overcome other people's mistakes, but my own conscience will be the death of me. When I read those words you posted, I vowed to do my part and help alleviate the situation. And although I'm thankful for what voidspawn said about my "rising above hate," he was wrong. I wasn't rising above hate but above the entire situation, which allows you to understand and help, as well as transforms you into strength itself." And it's an indescribable feeling of positivity, power, and invincibility; it's what leaders are made out of. When you rise above the situation, you feel like a supreme being you feel like God.
But you don't wanna hear that. You'd rather I go, "Oh my gosh, now I understand what you're getting at, and how come I didn't see that before?" The thing is, I know where you're coming from, so why don't you try to see my standpoint? You'd rather I march right next to you saying "they hate us" and all that bullshit. Well I'm sorry, I'm an objective person and believe that objectivity is the key to resolving issues. This is the main difference between you and me, and I'll show you how.
When you first posted the feminist writings 2 weeks ago, I immediately read them and understood the resentment behind them. Since it was second-wave feminist writings, my immediate reaction was to look up the legislation they created because such discourse is sick, which I also pointed out earlier. And upon primary research, I concluded that these laws were indeed as unjust as these writings were sick, which I also mentioned. And the thing about hate is, it doesn't hurt as much as legislation does, so when all these resentful women (and deluded men) created these laws based off these sentiments, they instigated something much more damaging than hate: the legitimized abuse of men.
That's how I reacted to such writings, whereas you're still hung up on re-reading them rather than change your discourse to attain your rights. Hate is part of life and who we are as people, but transforming hateful discourse into policy is another much more dangerous matter, which is what happened in your situation. Also, hate is a human attribute and dies off when the person dies. And believe it or not, that hate died off when these second-wave feminists died off, leaving you with nothing but a sorry ass, ****ed up legislation that dehumanizes you as husbands, fathers, and men.
I'll give you an example on this specific point. A new legislation comes out based on a similarly nasty resentful discourse permitting men to physically abuse their female spouses. Men wouldn't commit that act at first, but 10 years into the legislation, many men would. Yet even if I were to physically undergo that abuse myself, I wouldn't attribute it to hate but to the system that allows such behavior; that's of course if I were logic-based. Look at slavery or the apartheid if you can't see it yet, a time when many people were able to like and make friends with "the dehumanized other" yet felt it within their right to abuse them. That's because they don't see it as hateful but lawful.
So when a woman withholds child visitation rights, robs half your hard-earned income, or gets nasty about child support, she is only acting based on the law telling her that it's within her rights as a human being to do so. Hell, some couples even get back together and remarry after all that bullshit they go through, which only proves the destructive nature of these inhumane laws towards men. These women aren't born to hate men, they're trained by the system, and they've been trained for quite some time too.
Think about how an audience would perceive the MRAs on The Red Pill if they had gone on camera and all they said was, "Feminists hate us, they all hate us and they're all about hate." Think of how meaningless this would seem to the public. Instead, these men went on camera and rightfully disclosed real concerns that hundreds of thousands of men are facing and are silent about to this day.
But none of that registers with you since you're still carrying all these resentful statements you read a long time ago that were expressed by mostly dead people at this point. And that's because you're emotionally-based and would be probably be more distressed if someone says, "I hate you, mr_e" rather than "You're so unfair, mr_e," whereas I would be more disturbed by the latter statement; I don't mind being hated and wouldn't be influenced by it and would still treat that person fairly. I would, however, be very distressed if someone calls me unfair .. that would really hurt cuz it's what my constitution is all about. You're driven by emotions, and people like you tend to be very forgiving as well. (Plummer if you say shit test one more time I swear to God).
But now that we're on the subject, here's a little thing you might not know about hate, and regarding this forum too. I was going to mention this earlier, but decided against it because I didn't want to hurt you in any way. I now realize it was a bad decision because I believe that what I have to say is in the benefit of all of us. Plus, you can take it cuz you're a man and all men are strong. I know that this type of stereotyping might be considered in itself discriminatory but I don't care; men have been brutalized long enough, and there's nothing worse to me than the sight of a broken man.
As for resentment, here's my two cents:
I found the first traces of hate, which as I mentioned before is a human trait, through one of your own threads, mr_e; and I think that many of you might not perceive the hate within them due to your own preoccupation with the hate & injustice directed at you. In any case, it was a MGTOW video that mainly talked about how men should treat women, including things like "string her along unaware," or "get her down on her knees to do what she's good at," etc. I then watched other MGTOW videos by Howard Dare and others, which included phrases like "all women are pigs, and no matter how much makeup you put on a pig it's still a pig." There were a lotta phrases of course but this is to name a few; unfortunately, this was directed at all women rather than feminists and/or specific groups.
Now regardless of these insults, I was still able to pinpoint the reasons behind why men were so frustrated with some women and did think these points were valid. Yet, the discourse itself was indeed a hateful one, and I believe it's as dehumanizing as those sentiments you presented. Let's look at many MGTOWs point of view on "stringing a woman along without her knowledge," for example. I don't think there's anything wrong about not wanting to get married or attached, as long as you disclose such statement way ahead during the relationship; this is called having integrity.
If you have a girlfriend and you're MGTOW, the only decent and acceptable thing to do is to tell her that you're never getting married right from the start. And it's crucial that you disclose the reasons behind that because it'll help her understand what the hell you're going through as men within society, which in turn will yield immediate results on the behavior of many women, as well as yield positive results with respect to your own situation. This is called individual activism and a wonderful form of opposition as opposed to the crap some guys are pulling now. I find that MGTOW videos such as these only teach men to be manipulative, spineless cowards rather than have the integrity they should possess, especially since they're asking for fairness, equality, and respect. Go with integrity and it will guarantee you the best results.
You speak about hateful feminist sentiments, mr_e, and make it sound as if they were spoken just yesterday although it's been quite a while since the last horrific statement was made in that regard. In the meantime, and because you're so consumed with sentiments rather than objectivity, you fail to see the hateful discourse that's taking place right now, which is mostly expressed by anti-feminist men (and deluded women) of course. I'm not going to give you specific examples but will tell you that the entire discourse of many of these videos purely talks about "how all women are animals, how they are all whores, sluts, and liars .. that they're evil, dumb, conceited, and need to be treated like trash." I watched video after video that seemed to exude nothing but hate.
And although these videos aren't considered legislation, they do affect thousands of followers who keep hearing that women are animals and should be treated like trash, which is bad for everybody really. It also exasperates your current situation and problems rather than solve them. I was able to understand the reasons behind these resentful sentiments and the frustration that many men feel today due to being marginalized, but the situation needs be dealt with correctly. There's a huge difference between helping create a documentary that explains your situation, which is a responsible and effective way to go about things, and between spouting off about how women are cunts & bitches who deserve abuse.
You have real problems that have been going on for decades. You live in a society that incriminates "the very maleness" of you. For decades now, any normal masculine trait that you show, such as shouting or normal physical confrontation, has been viewed as an abnormal violent nature and met with restraint. Society equates your movement with racism and misogyny rather than one through which you can attain your basic rights as men. This is why you shouldn't resist people who do understand, as well as step up your game by being objective and fair in order to get more people concerned, supportive, and involved.
Your heart's in the right place, mr_e, and all that's left is objectivity to kick in.
Officer Plummer
- First of all .. you're so mainstream it's almost adorable. And an ex-cop too? This is gonna be kinda like batman vs superman. Btw I'm both characters, you just sit there and read your comic :-)
- Let me start off by saying .. what on planet earth have you been listening to? Awalt, Amalt, shit-tests? When'd you ditch your own common sense and why?
- Let me explain this whole mess about Awalt by giving you this example:
- What do automatically do when you're speaking to someone and ask him questions, and the person right next to him keeps answering for him? You immediately ask for that person to speak for himself, right?
- It's called the right to self-representation, which we're all entitled to as human beings. If I were to learn about men, I wouldn't ask a woman to describe them for me .. I'd ask men to represent themselves. So why on earth would you let men define who we are as women and speak on our behalf? Why not allow us self-representation, listen to us, and then make up your own mind?
- I define myself, Plummer, not you, not my parents, and definitely not some youtuber saying all kindsa stuff that don't describe me in the least bit. I say what I mean and always assume that people are telling the truth and hope I never change. It's ok to be careful and aware, I guess, but assuming the worst about people's intentions towards you (let alone a partner) is a major flaw and not a good way to live. I think that losing faith in others only mirrors loss of faith in ourselves, our own ability to give, to trust and to love.
- As for "vanity", I don't quite see it the way you do. I believe most men and women have intrinsic traits within them. Are you familiar with the saying, "Men are attracted to what they see, while women are attracted to what they hear." I was sitting at a coffee shop one time and an older lady asked to sit at my table after we exchanged a couple of words. I now understand that she might have been a feminist because she kept attributing male traits to women, to which I disagreed. She said that women were attracted by the male form just like men were attracted to ours, and that it wasn't fair for women to have such "restrictions" on their attire while men can roam around half naked without anybody batting an eye. And the funniest thing is, when I explained my thoughts on how fair this was because of men and women's different natures, she walked away after telling me that it's "Jesus-loving women like you that's ruining it for us." I didn't understand then but was just thankful she had left. Kept looking over my shoulder to see if she'd come back too.
- Women look nice for you guys, just like men look or stare at women because it's their nature. And the way men are currently ostracized just for staring at women speaks volumes about how anti-male society has become. Of course, looking nice does not mean abusing guys by being nasty. When a guy makes the effort to let you know you're cute and takes the risk of asking you out, you're automatically indebted to him, and the least a girl can do is say thank you and be pleasant about it. Being nasty to a guy asking you out is like being handed a flower only to toss it on the floor and stomp on it.
- I still remember when dad unexpectedly came back early from work one day, while mom was surrounded by me and two of my brothers working on homework. She was wearing her glasses, which dad apparently spotted. So he motioned for us to keep quiet, snuck up behind mom and went, "Gotcha!" She immediately took her glasses off and both of them started laughing so hard, and then he hugged her. My mom's very pretty, yet on that day I realized that he'd never seen her wearing her glasses. I thought it was very cute how mom always wants look nice for him.
- In essence, what you perceive as vanity, I perceive as an adherence to our natural traits as genders, which I hope never changes. I also believe that trying to look nice is a form of love between couples.
- Also, there's a big difference between looking nice and between having a flawed perception of things that are to be considered valuable, and the latter is something that the media is trying hard to spread. I think that designer items, for example, should be boycotted and that designer industry should be torn down. I believe that spending 300 dollars on some shoes simply because they carry the name of some dipshit, freak of a designer is a sin, especially given the fact that many people all over the world are dying off due to homelessness, disease-related illnesses, and hunger.
- And sadly, I think that the perception and relationship between many men and women is one that is currently built on suspicion and doubt, which leaves no room for hope or genuine happiness. I really hope I meet someone who hasn't been polluted by feminist or anti-feminist claims that men/women are bad so that we can build a healthy relationship together .. like a rancher up in Utah who's never heard of wifi.
- So I don't know what governs you, Plummer, but I'm planning on getting married and having four kids come hell or high water. And when I do get engaged, I'm gonna insist on choosing my own wedding ring to pick out the least expensive one out of consideration for his efforts in saving some money to get me something fancy. And when I do stay at home and receive my "allowance," I'm gonna spend it as scarcely as how hard he worked to earn it. This is not some cosmic wisdom or anything, merely an accurate awareness on what things really mean in life as opposed how they're inaccurately presented by others.
- Let's look at "domestic shelters", for example. The first thing they convey to women is that if you're in a relationship with a man, he will abuse you. I've always thought that having such shelters was wrong because it's pro-woman, one sided, and unfair. Let's suppose that my husband physically abused me, which is something that would never happen in reality cuz I wouldn't put myself in that position to begin with. But if it were to happen, the law would grant me the right to drag that man to jail without awarding him the chance to speak or actually learning about what happened. These domestic shelters don't give a damn if I were a loud mouth who constantly abused my partner emotionally to the point where he could only react how men instinctively react upon being severely threatened or cornered into confrontation .. hitting. That is both unfair and abusive.
- The thing is, there are legitimate concerns over the rights of men, and the best way to go about them is through raising our own self-awareness rather than spiral downward into more deluded misconceptions about one another.
- I have one life to live. This is my heaven and this is my hell. And I will steer my destiny according to my own morals, standards, and judgment rather than based on other people's convictions and thoughts. You should too.
- Try fitting that into one of your little categories, Officer.
- But I do appreciate you coming in here, mainstream, thinking you got game :-)
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