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  • #16
    Originally posted by Dee View Post
    I don't even think women have choices now .. I think of them more as what more can we get kinda thing.
    over all this post was good, there is one issue i have with this sentence.

    they definitely have choices and more choices than men, saying they have no choices is offensive as hell. i'd rather not have choices if not having choices meant i could just live free all my life without any care.

    they most certainly have choices and some good women choose right otherwise we would have -no- FMRM and no women working hard...

    some women choose right.. therefore they have a choice.

    a choice to be a leech on society and do nothing with their lives, or a a leech on a man, or to do something with their lives.
    Originally posted by MatrixTransform
    where were you before you put yourself last?
    Originally posted by TheNarrator
    Everywhere I travel, tiny life. Single-serving sugar, single-serving cream, single pat of butter. The microwave Cordon Bleu hobby kit. Shampoo-conditioner combos, sample-packaged mouthwash, tiny bars of soap. The people I meet on each flight? They're single-serving friends.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by theplummer View Post
      "Women have choices, Men have responsibilities" is said in another way "It's a woman's prerogative to change her mind". The article you read just confirms what I've been saying all the while..

      If a woman wants to be responsible she can be, and that's a wonderful thing in a man's life... However, she has the right to 'change her mind' and do exactly the opposite and men just have to 'man up' and 'deal with it'....

      Nothing new under the sun here. I'm not saying AWALT, again what I'm saying is All women Are Like that If/When they choose to be like that... And her behavior is kind of like a cycle... or a wave... I honestly think a woman's behavior is based on what her hormone levels are at, at any given time during her menstrual cycle....

      A woman who is totally 'on board' today may be totally not on board tomorrow and do exactly the opposite thing (or act on her feelings). This is the entire cycle of hypergamy... at one point of her cycle she may desire the "hot" guy to procreate with, but then once that feeling passes, she may likely desire her provider beta male (not to use labels, just identify a trait quickly) and be right back on board with him...

      Prior to rampant feminism, IE pre no fault divorce, there was a stigma placed upon women, by women about being a divorcee, about being promiscuous, about being 'loose'... women used to shame other women, keeping their sexual nature repressed, and placed social standards upon women... The 'free love' of the 60's destroyed all that, giving women the 'sexual freedom' that men supposedly already had (but we didn't, maybe the top tier 'Chad Thundercock's' did, but most did not), but women policed each other's behavior... But the irony of all of this is that those social standards no longer apply, because... 'patriarchy'... blaming men as the ones who policed women's behavior... Which is total bullshit...

      The more I know about how the lefties operate, the more I know they are nothing more that history manipulators...
      My grandmother on my dad's side who died two years ago, used to say similar things about how women used to help other women, in a moral sense. Our culture promotes the idea that morality is strictly subjective, and you're too judgmental if you dare to suggest to another person how to live their life. It also depends how a person is raised. My parents have their ups and downs, but they still love each other, and remained married - I wasn't raised in a broken home, where I only heard one parent's worldview. A mother can't be a father, a father can't be a mother - and society needs both raising their own kids. Feminism has become the surrogate parent, and for many men and women, they gain their worldview from that worldview, which is obviously skewed with a loaded agenda. So, there's a lot of things that go into rebuilding our society to becoming responsible, as a whole. But, you speak some bold truths that are hard to hear, and we won't hear in the mainstream media.

      The truth shall set us free, though. Maybe some people don't want to be free thinkers, they'd rather be hypnotized by lies. :/

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Mifune View Post
        I thought "Choice Feminism" was the idea that anything done by a woman is inherently a feminist act because a woman chose to do it.

        That said, I've mentioned here before, that it does seem like "Choice" is the highest value for feminism. And I don't know if it's because "Choice" is what they want, or if it's an absence of responsibility, but often the two seem to come out the same.
        I actually wonder if ''choice feminism'' means that women can choose what feminism even means to them. So, if women elect to be SAHM's, relinquish their careers, and become super traditional, they have the ''right'' to still consider themselves, ''feminists.'' Because to many feminists, as long as it's a woman's choice to live her life any way she wishes - she could be a porn star, as long as it's HER CHOICE, then she's a feminist.

        Because you see, when choice is the highest moral virtue, then anything that restricts choice is a terrible sin. And that doesn't just mean people who get in the way.
        Yes, so true. There's a Catholic saying ''when evil becomes thought of as good, and good becomes thought of as evil, we are doomed as a society.'' I want to say that Mother Teresa said this, but not sure.

        Another forum I used to post on would have every couple months a guy would come in saying that his girlfriend is dressing in a more sexually revealing way than he was comfortable with. There was no evaluation of what was going on. Did she change? Is she dressing more revealing? Is she just super content with herself because of the relationship, or she looking for outside attention? No, we can't evaluate, instead the accusation of being a controlling asshole was leveled against the guy almost immediately. Why, because if she actually cared about his concern, she might change her behavior, but if she changes her behavior out of deference to her boyfriend, then she's deprived of the "choice" to dress revealing. (Even though she's actually exercising her right to choose by changing what she's doing).
        Most likely, she's cheating on him. That would have been unpopular to say, but it's likely the truth. This is so ironic you post this, because I joined a marriage website since I'm engaged, and wow, it's incredible how prevalent the double standard is. Husbands will start threads sharing that their wives are cheating on them, and they are looking for support from the forum. SO MANY WOMEN will retort back ''were you meeting her needs?'' I will jump in and say ''if this were a woman posting, and her husband was cheating, you'd all say kick him to the curb.'' Some get it, some don't. I'm so tired of the culture making it sound like women are not capable of thinking like adults. If you choose to cheat on your spouse, that's on you, honey...not on your husband. Maybe the marriage sucks, but you always have the choice to leave. There is often a lot of good advice, but there's a lot of bad advice given to men who are broken hearted, and looking for help. They are basically told to ''man up'' and so on.

        It gets even more abstract if you talk about sex and reproduction.
        Yep.

        Sex has the potential to produce children. But nothing should interfere with a woman's "choice" of who to engage in sexual activity with. In the absence of a state to force a biological father to pay, and / or legalized abortion, than a woman has to be particular about who she sleeps with, or she might just end up pregnant with no support. In the past people would call that a consequence of her actions. (not absolving the hypothetical father of responsibility, just saying it's something she can avoid by being particular about the kind of person she sleeps with). But to feminists, even the legitimate biological consequences (pregnancy) are a sin because those deprive women of the ability to make free choices.
        Agree. Feminism has sold women a bunch of lies that she can be irresponsible with her body - her body, her choice. The reality is that women need to be less reckless about who they have sex with, and realize that they don't have the biological make up to have sex without baring the responsibility. Many feminists feel it's a burden to be a woman, but motherhood was never meant to be a burden, it's meant to be a gift. See? Comes back to when evil becomes good, good becomes evil, etc. Feminists want to be like men, and resent that men can 'have their fun' without consequences. Which is why child support in cases where one night stands have occurred, seem almost revenge-like. Why do you want to have a guy in your life forever, when you only intended to have him for one night? We could go on and on, but it's just mind boggling.

        To the feminist mind, it's somehow not a free choice if the potential consequences influence it in any way. So they work their ass off to make sure that the legal system is setup so that women can make any choice they want, even choices that are immensely negative (killing babies, having children out of wedlock with men who don't want to be fathers) while facing as few of the repercussions of their actions as possible. Go on over to a feminist debate about abortion and you'll see, that they think being pregnant when they didn't want to be is a punishment that pro-life people are trying to force upon them, instead of a biological consequence of the choice to have sex.
        Amen.

        Wrap it up however you like, but feminism being about "choice" means it's about avoiding consequences and responsibility because their mere existence might actually influence the choices that women make.
        And what's sad is shirking one's responsibilities doesn't make one free-er. It enslaves a person in a way he/she never imagined possible. Like a runaway train, the person will crash and burn someday, because they never learned self-control and temperance. We weren't meant to have no restrictions, no guidance, no laws, no boundaries. That doesn't create freedom, that creates chaos.
        Last edited by Deidre; 04-18-2017, 06:31 PM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Deidre View Post
          I actually wonder if ''choice feminism'' means that women can choose what feminism even means to them. So, if women elect to be SAHM's, relinquish their careers, and become super traditional, they have the ''right'' to still consider themselves, ''feminists.'' Because to many feminists, as long as it's a woman's choice to live her life any way she wishes - she could be a porn star, as long as it's HER CHOICE, then she's a feminist.
          Yep, they've even succeeded in deconstructing themselves so that there is no cohesion and definition and everything is feminism = "too big to fail" syndrome.
          "De-polarize women and re-moralize men." - Me

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Deidre View Post
            I'm so tired of the culture making it sound like women are not capable of thinking like adults.
            100% agree with this and I don't know if you've had experience with it but I personally find that women get into other women's affairs far too much. Seems like women are on the lookout for faults in another womans relationship, not sure if thats a competition thing or what. It makes me wonder whether men react like that or not, I don't think I've ever heard of a man acting like they need to help another man run from a relationships because they're not "capable" of leaving so why is it prevalent that women think they need to help other women run or defend that they left?
            Funny thing about shit -- good things tend to grow out of it

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Ambiguous View Post
              100% agree with this and I don't know if you've had experience with it but I personally find that women get into other women's affairs far too much. Seems like women are on the lookout for faults in another womans relationship, not sure if thats a competition thing or what. It makes me wonder whether men react like that or not, I don't think I've ever heard of a man acting like they need to help another man run from a relationships because they're not "capable" of leaving so why is it prevalent that women think they need to help other women run or defend that they left?
              I think it's all part of the feminist agenda. Feminism wants women to feel empowered on the one hand, able to handle their lives independent of men... yet also claim to be victims (of men) when it's convenient. Most of the time when I've observed women scolding men for not taking care of their wife's needs, etc...and that could be why she cheated, etc...they're usually feminists. When women scold other women for not taking care of their men's needs, they're usually not feminists. (Just my observations)

              Have you ever noticed in articles whereby women have committed murders, or molested kids, etc...there's usually a therapist being quoted in the article claiming that the woman ''wasn't in her right mind,'' or ''suffered from depression,'' or ''was pushed to doing what she did because her husband was...'' ? But if an article is reporting the facts on a man committing murder, molestation, etc...the verbiage is usually ''he's a psychopath,'' or ''he should be locked up,'' or ''he's a monster.'' As a culture, women aren't held to the same accountability as men, even when committing heinous crimes.

              That's all part of the feminism machine, keeping the narrative structured to protecting women at all costs, keeping us perpetual victims of men.
              Last edited by Deidre; 04-21-2017, 01:51 AM.

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              • #22
                This thread is very interesting... I do totally agree with what is being said.

                It does beg some additional questions though... the problem is that I don't think that AVfM is the correct format... I also don't want to derail Deidra's thread either.

                I'm going to ask, but if it's better posed in another way or elsewhere please just let me know:

                What are the responsibilities that 'modern' women should be made aware of, and held accountable to and what is the best way to do that in 2017 to accompany their 'choices'?
                "De-polarize women and re-moralize men." - Me

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Deidre View Post
                  This is so ironic you post this, because I joined a marriage website since I'm engaged, and wow, it's incredible how prevalent the double standard is. Husbands will start threads sharing that their wives are cheating on them, and they are looking for support from the forum. SO MANY WOMEN will retort back ''were you meeting her needs?'' I will jump in and say ''if this were a woman posting, and her husband was cheating, you'd all say kick him to the curb.'' Some get it, some don't. I'm so tired of the culture making it sound like women are not capable of thinking like adults. If you choose to cheat on your spouse, that's on you, honey...not on your husband. Maybe the marriage sucks, but you always have the choice to leave. There is often a lot of good advice, but there's a lot of bad advice given to men who are broken hearted, and looking for help. They are basically told to ''man up'' and so on.
                  Sadly this is the case in many Christian Churches too. They're so afraid of the feminists' agenda and so many of the female parishioners buy into it, even if it's only on an unconscious societal level that pastor's won't confront women, even when they're openly cheating on their husbands. Instead of telling her she's sinning, they point the finger at the man and say "You're not loving her right". They rubber-stamp frivolous divorce because it's easier than running the risk of losing a woman from the church who's not following Christ's teachings anyway.

                  It's a twisting of traditional headship. It's his job to lead not to force her to submit. She is called to submit, not submit as long as she still has the tingles, or submit as long as he takes the trash out without being asked. Submission is an act of will. I'd suggest that if someone is dominating you is very difficult to submit because you're in a position where it's not a choice.

                  Yet the onus is regularly placed upon men. To the point that Dalrock is calling out Pastors for basically saying that "women don't sin". In fact, women are so pure and righteous, their sexual desire is presented as though it's a barometer for godliness. Men have only to spend 15 minutes online to know that Godliness is not the primary driver of sexual attraction for women. The weird thing is that women know how women behave. In the words of Chris Rock "Women hate women"....and I think part of it is because women see through other women's lie of purity where men men (especially beta male pastors) believe the lie.

                  And yet, Eve at the fruit first.

                  Part 1:
                  https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2016/1...nt-sin-part-1/

                  Part 2:
                  https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2016/1...nt-sin-part-2/
                  "...but when she goes off you, she will not just walk away, she will walk away with your fucking skin in a jar." ~~ DoctorRandomercam
                  "The laws of man, they don't apply when blood gets in a woman's eye" - The Black Keys

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Ambiguous View Post
                    100% agree with this and I don't know if you've had experience with it but I personally find that women get into other women's affairs far too much. Seems like women are on the lookout for faults in another womans relationship, not sure if thats a competition thing or what. It makes me wonder whether men react like that or not, I don't think I've ever heard of a man acting like they need to help another man run from a relationships because they're not "capable" of leaving so why is it prevalent that women think they need to help other women run or defend that they left?
                    I think women like to validate their own choices through the behaviors of other women.

                    So for example, if Beverly divorces her husband because "she's just not feeling it anymore", then she looks for opportunities to undermine her girlfriends' marriages too. Because for one, she'll get more of their time if they're not spending it with their husbands. They can live the "Sex-in-the-City" lifestyle together!

                    But also, I think many women make decisions by consensus. They don't ask themselves "is this moral or right"? They ask their friends. And they keep asking their friends until they get a few that agree with the course of action she already decided she wants to take. (to be fair some men do this too)

                    The flip side of that, is that if she makes a selfish decision, then she can mitigate that decision retroactively by getting her friends to behave the same way. They may not have agreed with her course of action when she asked, but if they leave their husbands too, then the consensus is reached through behavior instead of conversation. Noone can shame her or cause her to feel guilt now, because they did it too.
                    "...but when she goes off you, she will not just walk away, she will walk away with your fucking skin in a jar." ~~ DoctorRandomercam
                    "The laws of man, they don't apply when blood gets in a woman's eye" - The Black Keys

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mifune View Post
                      Sadly this is the case in many Christian Churches too. They're so afraid of the feminists' agenda and so many of the female parishioners buy into it, even if it's only on an unconscious societal level that pastor's won't confront women, even when they're openly cheating on their husbands. Instead of telling her she's sinning, they point the finger at the man and say "You're not loving her right". They rubber-stamp frivolous divorce because it's easier than running the risk of losing a woman from the church who's not following Christ's teachings anyway.

                      It's a twisting of traditional headship. It's his job to lead not to force her to submit. She is called to submit, not submit as long as she still has the tingles, or submit as long as he takes the trash out without being asked. Submission is an act of will. I'd suggest that if someone is dominating you is very difficult to submit because you're in a position where it's not a choice.

                      Yet the onus is regularly placed upon men. To the point that Dalrock is calling out Pastors for basically saying that "women don't sin". In fact, women are so pure and righteous, their sexual desire is presented as though it's a barometer for godliness. Men have only to spend 15 minutes online to know that Godliness is not the primary driver of sexual attraction for women. The weird thing is that women know how women behave. In the words of Chris Rock "Women hate women"....and I think part of it is because women see through other women's lie of purity where men men (especially beta male pastors) believe the lie.

                      And yet, Eve at the fruit first.

                      Part 1:
                      https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2016/1...nt-sin-part-1/

                      Part 2:
                      https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2016/1...nt-sin-part-2/
                      Good points. Since returning to the faith over a year ago, I've been shopping around for the right church and interestingly, I feel that this one local Baptist church in my area, is what seems to be willing to preach the hard truths. Following Jesus isn't easy and He said it wouldn't be easy, so with that in mind, life isn't going to always feel good and roll the way you want it to simply because you have faith. Following Christ involves sacrifice, like He sacrificed. This pastor at this church is pretty amazing and doesn't put the Bible through a spin zone. He talks a lot about marriage and sin and how men and women are called to obedience to God, through their marriage. He talks a lot about accountability and how men and women have different types of accountability because we are different. It seems more like a non-denom bible preaching church than straight Baptist, but it's refreshing from those "churches" that just preach a feel good message to get your tithe.

                      I wonder if the onus on men in general when it comes to faith, is because all of the prophets were men, Jesus was a man who if you're a believer, believe that He took the weight of the world's sins upon Himself, you know? However, Jesus approached women a lot according to the Bible, and convicted then in their sin, so maybe people cherry pick what they want and toss out the rest. I don't really think it's my place to judge someone's walk of faith but it's obvious that many churches are way too secular and by design in order to keep the pews filled on Sundays.
                      Last edited by Deidre; 04-21-2017, 07:05 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Mifune View Post

                        The flip side of that, is that if she makes a selfish decision, then she can mitigate that decision retroactively by getting her friends to behave the same way.
                        Misery loves company
                        "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

                        And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. - Donne

                        "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
                        "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

                        "What remains for most men in modern life is a world of expectation without reward, burden without honor and service without self" - Paul Elam

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by CamilleLion View Post
                          This thread is very interesting... I do totally agree with what is being said.

                          It does beg some additional questions though... the problem is that I don't think that AVfM is the correct format... I also don't want to derail Deidra's thread either.
                          I think this is the perfect forum to discuss it, since there is a sense of objectivity here missing from say a feminist forum.

                          I'm going to ask, but if it's better posed in another way or elsewhere please just let me know:

                          What are the responsibilities that 'modern' women should be made aware of, and held accountable to and what is the best way to do that in 2017 to accompany their 'choices'?
                          I'm not sure everyone's responsibilities are the same, but if a woman chooses to do something, she should own it. Whatever it is. If she has a baby from a one night stand, own it. She shouldn't ruin a guy's life because of her choices. Same for men, as well. Whatever choices we make in life, we need to handle the consequences of those choices. Much of the quality of our life comes from our choices, yet feminists have taught women that they can make any choice they wish, without bearing the consequences of their actions. Those are lies. So, I don't think is one prescription that fits all cases, you know? I think it's more about taking personal responsibility for your own life and choices, and most people know what that means, they just don't want to do it, sometimes. A woman leading a guy into bed, after they're both drunk, has a hot night of sex with him, wakes up the next day and cries rape because she is regretful of a night she doesn't remember well, or doesn't wish to remember, is an example that I'm talking about. Society needs to stop pushing all the blame on men, and start expecting women to watch out for themselves. If feminism is about equality, then women shouldn't need men looking out for them at bars, and the workplace, and in the streets. We have to start learning to pay attention to how we put ourselves out there, and what it all means. The truth is, men want to help women, it's part of their nature to protect us. But, we shouldn't take advantage of that trait, exploiting it for our own gain, or some grander agenda.

                          Originally posted by Mifune View Post
                          I think women like to validate their own choices through the behaviors of other women.

                          So for example, if Beverly divorces her husband because "she's just not feeling it anymore", then she looks for opportunities to undermine her girlfriends' marriages too. Because for one, she'll get more of their time if they're not spending it with their husbands. They can live the "Sex-in-the-City" lifestyle together!

                          But also, I think many women make decisions by consensus. They don't ask themselves "is this moral or right"? They ask their friends. And they keep asking their friends until they get a few that agree with the course of action she already decided she wants to take. (to be fair some men do this too)

                          The flip side of that, is that if she makes a selfish decision, then she can mitigate that decision retroactively by getting her friends to behave the same way. They may not have agreed with her course of action when she asked, but if they leave their husbands too, then the consensus is reached through behavior instead of conversation. Noone can shame her or cause her to feel guilt now, because they did it too.
                          On that marriage forum that I mentioned a few posts up, it's not just women apparently doing this. There are many married women on that site lamenting over how their husbands are ''changing'' by hanging around their newly divorced friends and it worries them. Herd mentality is a common thing in humans, and we have to guard ourselves from the wrong friends. There are times I've asked my friends for advice, but they're good people overall, so most of the time, they're not going to lead me astray. But, if women turn to other women before making every life changing decision, that's definitely not healthy nor wise. But again, herd mentality does have that component with it - that when you are walking with the herd, even if the herd is wrong, you don't feel afraid in your choices. Like the recent women's march, where many of those women felt empowered in numbers. But, maybe wouldn't be that outspoken about ''women's issues'' outside of that media frenzy.
                          Last edited by Deidre; 04-22-2017, 02:00 AM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by CamilleLion View Post
                            What are the responsibilities that 'modern' women should be made aware of, and held accountable to and what is the best way to do that in 2017 to accompany their 'choices'?
                            I think a lot of men would be more than happy if women were to display some common humanity, decency and courtesy. Don't lie, don't steal, don't kill, don't covet your husbands oxen, nor your neighbour's ass.
                            Some might call this a perhaps too modest demand, but those I'd invite to consider the probability of this happening.

                            M

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