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4 MRA Arguments That Actually Have a Point – And Where They Go Wrong

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  • 4 MRA Arguments That Actually Have a Point – And Where They Go Wrong

    Leave it to EveryDayFeminim to lecture MRAs in what issues they can advance and how to express them...

    http://everydayfeminism.com/2017/03/...int-and-wrong/

    When I first learned about Men’s Rights Activists (MRAs), a group of people aimed at giving men access to the same opportunities as other a/genders, I didn’t realize they had a reputation for being anti-feminist. In fact, a lot of their ideas seemed pretty feminist to me.
    I guess those times feminism pretend to be about equality?

    They wanted men to have the chance to be caretakers as well as breadwinners. They wanted all crime victims to be taken seriously. They wanted an end to stereotypes.
    Amazing how this feminist read the list of men issues and end up with this idea of them...

    But once I became known to MRAs as a feminist, many let me know they weren’t on my side.

    I started getting angry tweets complaining about how women ruled the world and men were oppressed.

    A few even used sexist insults against me.
    Oh the criminals... how dare them...

    I ignored them for the most part, but when I tried to engage with them, they seemed more interested in trolling me than exchanging ideas.

    How could people who seemingly agree on so much become such adversaries?

    At their worst, MRAs are simply looking to justify misogyny under the guise of “rights.” At their best, people with MRA-like beliefs sometimes start off from the same place as feminists – wanting gender equity – but then disagree about how to go about it.

    Here are some common MRA arguments that have a point initially but take a wrong turn.
    Pay attention guys, a feminist is now going to teach us how to be activists in the correct and approved way...

    1. Male Survivors Should Be Taken Seriously

    Men’s rights activists often accuse feminists of prioritizing female survivors of sexual assault and intimate partner violence while men get ignored. (Non-binary people are unfortunately usually absent from these discussions, even though feminists do acknowledge that they are disproportionately targeted.)

    But feminists absolutely are sympathetic to male survivors. Many have spoken and written about the need to take them seriously.

    We don’t believe any survivor is more important than any other, and we’re deeply concerned about the ideas about masculinity that lead people to dismiss male survivors. We want to challenge the idea that men always must be strong and can’t seek help.
    The problem is not that they don't seek help... the problem is that there is no help for them to find... And writing blogs abotu it does not help neither... we are here talking about real help.

    If we talk disproportionately about sexual assault and intimate partner violence directed toward women and LGBTQIA+ people, that’s because they experience it disproportionately.

    Thirty-three percent of women and 39.1% of transgender, genderqueer, questioning, or non-conforming people – compared to 8.6% of men – are sexually assaulted by their senior year of college.
    "questioning"... really??? a man that is victim of rape is goign to be questioning a lot...

    Ninety-eight percent of sex trafficking victims are women and girls. Of all the women murdered in 2012, half of them were killed by their partners or family members, but only one in twenty men were killed by partners or family members.

    And that’s not a coincidence.

    The violence we experience in our own lives is a reflection of the violent ideologies directed toward us. That’s why we talk about violence toward women and LGBTQIA+ people. Not because it matters more. Because it reflects a troubling pattern.
    Im Cambodia... This feminist gives the link to the study where the number 98% comes from... and yeah... it is in 3th worlds countries...

    It reflects that a quarter of young people believe it’s normal for guys to pressure girls into sex. It reflects that in relationships between men and women, men are considered the aggressors while women are the gatekeepers. It reflects that college men are taught “no means yes, yes means anal.”
    1 in 4 young men still pursue sex with a woman... we need to bring that number to zero?

    There are also ideologies that lead men to experience sexual violence and intimate partner violence, like that women aren’t strong enough to hurt men and that men always want sex and are therefore unrapeable.

    But there is no societal norm dictating that women should invade men’s personal space, make them feel unsafe in public, and treat their bodies like objects.
    There is actually such societal norm.. it is call feminism... Feminism have giving us plenty of examples of all this.

    Though the outcome is equally bad, there’s a major difference between the beliefs that lead to violence toward men and those that lead to violence toward women and nonbinary people.

    People believe certain forms of violence toward men can’t happen, while they believe violence toward other a/genders is normal and okay. Both these ideas stem from a societal belief in male superiority.

    So, ultimately, supporting male survivors and supporting female and non-binary survivors go together.

    Both require us to challenge patriarchy.
    Ok, I am good with that... so where is the equal help for men?

    2. Fathers Are as Important as Mothers

    Another common men’s rights issue is child custody and, more generally, men’s ability to play as active a role in the family as women do.
    At this moment they are not even asking to play an equal role as the mother.. they are asking to be able to play any role in the life of the kid, whatever it is, even 1 hour a week... something...

    Feminists totally agree with this as well. Everyone should have a choice regarding what role they play in the family, and their a/gender shouldn’t factor into that.
    So why feminism oppose so hard to it then?

    In fact, having more equal households benefits people of all a/genders. In relationships between men and women, for example, women whose male partners are helping out around the house are more able to prioritize their careers.

    But men’s smaller role in the household is also not evidence that they’re oppressed. Once again, we need to look not just at the way things are, but also at the underlying ideologies.
    Well... she call the cops andlie about the man, so he never get to see the kids again... I would like to see the underlying ideology on that...

    There’s nothing inherently oppressive about being a stay-at-home parent or being a breadwinner. The oppression lies in the beliefs that leave women confined to the former position while men are confined to the latter and non-binary people are totally erased.
    We are not talking about families that have both parents... we are talking about the majority of families in America...

    Women are deemed ideal homemakers because people expect free labor from them and don’t consider them as capable of most jobs. Men are deemed ideal breadwinners because they are considered deserving of money and capable of earning it.

    Even though its effects can be negative, this belief itself is positive toward men.
    I am sure this feminism is not even going to talk about family court and how most divorces play out...

    Yes, there’s also the belief that men aren’t great with children or household chores. But since childrearing and homemaking are devalued in our society, this belief is not as pejorative as the belief that someone doesn’t belong in the workplace.

    Aside from the root ideologies, the other thing that determines whether or not a family structure is oppressive is whether people have a choice. And like MRAs, feminists believe men – and anyone of any gender involved in parenting a child – should have a choice in their familial role.
    The issue is that men want to be involved in the parenting, and they are prevented to do so.

    3. Circumcision Is a Violation of Bodily Autonomy

    Some men’s rights activists also talk about circumcision as unjust treatment of people with penises.
    I'd call it criminal.. but go on...

    Once again, many feminists agree on this. Part of creating a culture of consent is not doing anything to anyone’s body without their permission, and that includes circumcision.

    Male circumcision is a feminist issue. However, it is not proof that men are an oppressed gender.
    Uh... I don't know if this is oppressive... it is just that legally parents can mutilate parts of the baby boy...

    While decreased sensitivity can be an effect of circumcision, it is not its usual purpose. It’s most often done for supposed health or hygiene (which has been debunked as credible) or to honor a religion or culture. In fact, criticism of male circumcision is often thinly veiled anti-Semitism.

    But female genital mutilation is performed in attempt to repress women’s sexuality, enhance men’s pleasure, and keep women from having sex outside of marriage so that they can be the property of their husbands. And unlike male circumcision, it has no potential benefits for health or hygiene and has more severe risks.

    Again, we can be angry about an issue men face without viewing it as a result of a hierarchy that puts men below people of other a/genders.
    So what? then again not solutions at all... it is not about expressing feelings, it is about making stuff right...

    4. There’s Nothing Wrong with Men

    Lastly, one of MRAs’ biggest complaints against feminists – and people in general – is that they portray men negatively.
    This is a kindly way to put it... in schools boys are treated as defective, and as adults every men is treated as a potential rapist...

    And honestly, I’ve had the same complaints about certain feminists – for example, essentialist feminists who say women should be empowered because the world needs more caring and nurturing instead of men and their wars.

    That doesn’t represent all feminists, though.
    It does...

    I’ve personally found that most are against this kind of stereotyping. Benevolent sexism isn’t great for women either, after all, since it sets up unfair expectations and advocates only conditional respect.

    Feminists acknowledge that most violence against women is committed by men, but we don’t view this as inherent or natural to men. We view it as a result of a patriarchal society that oppresses everyone – as an issue of socialization.
    How long you guys think would it take to this feminist to trow a blank statement stereotyping all men of being violent?

    Well... first line of next paragraph... of course:

    Men are conditioned to be aggressive and domineering toward gender minorities like women through violent depictions of masculinity in the media, pressure to act masculine in front of their peers, and expectations from caregivers starting at a young age. This doesn’t absolve them of responsibility for hurtful behaviors, though.
    No, men are not being conditioned to any of that... have this feminist any idea how boys are being educated in their homes and schools???

    We don’t hate men. We hate toxic masculinity. We believe men can be better than they’re made out to be. Instead of getting defensive, men should be on board with that.
    And then again, one more time... men can be better??? how???

    Many MRAs accuse feminists of dismissing the cause of men’s liberation.

    But we’re not dismissing it. The idea that all people should have access to the same opportunities and live free from stereotypes is worth fighting for. We just don’t believe in dismissing feminism in the process.
    Well, because feminism opposed to men causes... so what you expect?

    The truth of the matter is, we live in a patriarchal society.
    No, we don't.

    Just look at the numbers: Less than a quarter of national parliamentarians are women. Only 4% of Fortune 500 CEOs are women. Statistics don’t exist for non-binary people at all.The most powerful people in this world are men.
    Do you even have an idea how hard is to get a job as a CEO of a fortune 500??? does this feminist think that a man show up and say: "I have a dick, where is my office?" and that is how got that job?

    You want to be the CEO of a fortune 500 company? great, you are down for at least 15 years of higher education, and a lot of work, also need a lot of talent...

    Or you can do what Warren Buffett did... create your own company from scratch and lead your company all the way to the top 500...

    I am reading the list of this names at wikipedia page:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...utive_officers

    All this feminist see is dicks and vaginas... while I see this names and try to figure out how this people get to those jobs:

    Jeff Bezos, founder and CEO of Amazon... why a woman did not create a store website??? when Amazon started out Jeff stays up to 3 AM packing boxes on the floor (they didn't even have a packing table)... where was that feminist woman that day at 3 AM???... and now they claim that he is successful not because his hard work and dedication... but because penis?

    That doesn’t mean the world is fair to men. But if men want liberation from gender roles, they should support feminists, not MRAs.
    And what we do if we want liberation from feminist BS?

    Feminists are advocating for more generous paternity leave, greater acceptance of men who show emotions and vulnerability, and less pressure for men to play the “masculine” role in their relationships and families.

    And while MRAs make many good points, I’ve seen their behavior get really toxic. When they talk about women like men are entitled to them and deny the existence of misogyny, they fuel patriarchy, which hurts people of all a/genders.

    But if you’re ready to fight for men’s liberation without putting anyone else down, we welcome you with open arms.

    In fact, we desperately need you. Just please understand that men won’t be free from gender roles until oppressed a/genders are as well.
    It's a trap...

    Shall we see how well men in feminism is doing??? because everytime i search for the role of men on feminism, I get this same info that feminism is for equality but in reality is for the equality of women, and men need to shut up and listen, and we are goign to work in women's issues first and when they are fix then we can look into men issues... and so on and go on...

    Example in case... this article:

    https://mic.com/articles/101540/so-y...low#.akBD0OImi

    Point 4 even address men issues.. as go and fix it yourself don't ask feminism to help you...

  • #2
    Originally posted by simpleman View Post
    Leave it to EveryDayFeminim to lecture MRAs in what issues they can advance and how to express them...

    http://everydayfeminism.com/2017/03/...int-and-wrong/



    I guess those times feminism pretend to be about equality?



    Amazing how this feminist read the list of men issues and end up with this idea of them...



    Oh the criminals... how dare them...



    Pay attention guys, a feminist is now going to teach us how to be activists in the correct and approved way...



    The problem is not that they don't seek help... the problem is that there is no help for them to find... And writing blogs abotu it does not help neither... we are here talking about real help.



    "questioning"... really??? a man that is victim of rape is goign to be questioning a lot...



    Im Cambodia... This feminist gives the link to the study where the number 98% comes from... and yeah... it is in 3th worlds countries...



    1 in 4 young men still pursue sex with a woman... we need to bring that number to zero?



    There is actually such societal norm.. it is call feminism... Feminism have giving us plenty of examples of all this.



    Ok, I am good with that... so where is the equal help for men?



    At this moment they are not even asking to play an equal role as the mother.. they are asking to be able to play any role in the life of the kid, whatever it is, even 1 hour a week... something...



    So why feminism oppose so hard to it then?



    Well... she call the cops andlie about the man, so he never get to see the kids again... I would like to see the underlying ideology on that...



    We are not talking about families that have both parents... we are talking about the majority of families in America...



    I am sure this feminism is not even going to talk about family court and how most divorces play out...



    The issue is that men want to be involved in the parenting, and they are prevented to do so.



    I'd call it criminal.. but go on...



    Uh... I don't know if this is oppressive... it is just that legally parents can mutilate parts of the baby boy...



    So what? then again not solutions at all... it is not about expressing feelings, it is about making stuff right...



    This is a kindly way to put it... in schools boys are treated as defective, and as adults every men is treated as a potential rapist...



    It does...



    How long you guys think would it take to this feminist to trow a blank statement stereotyping all men of being violent?

    Well... first line of next paragraph... of course:



    No, men are not being conditioned to any of that... have this feminist any idea how boys are being educated in their homes and schools???



    And then again, one more time... men can be better??? how???



    Well, because feminism opposed to men causes... so what you expect?



    No, we don't.



    Do you even have an idea how hard is to get a job as a CEO of a fortune 500??? does this feminist think that a man show up and say: "I have a dick, where is my office?" and that is how got that job?

    You want to be the CEO of a fortune 500 company? great, you are down for at least 15 years of higher education, and a lot of work, also need a lot of talent...

    Or you can do what Warren Buffett did... create your own company from scratch and lead your company all the way to the top 500...

    I am reading the list of this names at wikipedia page:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...utive_officers

    All this feminist see is dicks and vaginas... while I see this names and try to figure out how this people get to those jobs:

    Jeff Bezos, founder and CEO of Amazon... why a woman did not create a store website??? when Amazon started out Jeff stays up to 3 AM packing boxes on the floor (they didn't even have a packing table)... where was that feminist woman that day at 3 AM???... and now they claim that he is successful not because his hard work and dedication... but because penis?



    And what we do if we want liberation from feminist BS?



    It's a trap...

    Shall we see how well men in feminism is doing??? because everytime i search for the role of men on feminism, I get this same info that feminism is for equality but in reality is for the equality of women, and men need to shut up and listen, and we are goign to work in women's issues first and when they are fix then we can look into men issues... and so on and go on...

    Example in case... this article:

    https://mic.com/articles/101540/so-y...low#.akBD0OImi

    Point 4 even address men issues.. as go and fix it yourself don't ask feminism to help you...


    Clarification: The author not Simpleman.
    I sexually identify as a sword pommel, check your privilege or i will have to end you RIGHTLY.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Anonymous View Post


      Clarification: The author not Simpleman.
      Can't blame the feminist.. actually. she try her best to convince MRAs to join feminism... maybe we should try the same... like...

      4 reasons why feminists should be MRAs, lol, and see if we can pull more people to here than them from us?

      lol.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by simpleman View Post
        Can't blame the feminist.. actually. she try her best to convince MRAs to join feminism... maybe we should try the same... like...

        4 reasons why feminists should be MRAs, lol, and see if we can pull more people to here than them from us?

        lol.
        Nobody who did their homework will fall for this, literally every single of her points was debunked.
        I sexually identify as a sword pommel, check your privilege or i will have to end you RIGHTLY.

        Comment

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