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Male Privilege in the Classroom, From an All-Girls Grad

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  • Male Privilege in the Classroom, From an All-Girls Grad

    Feminist go to university, the majority of her classmates are women... but she still fell oppress:

    I vividly remember how excited I was to start classes at Wesleyan this past fall. After a long, lazy summer, all of the traumatizing memories of senior year had begun to fade and I was ready to start expanding my mind alongside other bright, intellectually curious young students. I was going to challenge myself! I was going to do all the assigned reading! I was going to attend 8:50 classes five days a week without sleeping through a single one! And for the most part, my expectations were fulfilled. My professors were brilliant and my classes were—mostly—fascinating.
    Lest put this on perspective... this is how the Wesleyan University ranks:

    "Wesleyan University is a private institution that was founded in 1831. It has a total undergraduate enrollment of 2,897, its setting is city, and the campus size is 316 acres. It utilizes a semester-based academic calendar. Wesleyan University's ranking in the 2017 edition of Best Colleges is National Liberal Arts Colleges, 21. Its tuition and fees are $50,612 (2016-17)."

    So by all metrics it is one of the top universities on the country, and it cost $50k the semester.

    Which means that by all metrics this feminists is privilege. She is on the 1%, she never worried on her life for a bill, she does not know hunger or cold... I can only imagine how a "lazy summer" looks like... yet... she is just about to tell us how oppressed she is by evil men...

    Gradually though, I began to notice something about my male classmates: they talked constantly. This was particularly obvious in my First Year Seminar, a small, discussion-based course where it felt like the seven male students—despite making up less than half the class—managed to dominate every single discussion. At first, I wondered if I was imagining things—if coming from an all-girls high school had made me particularly sensitive to the presence of men—but when I talked to my friends about it they all nodded knowingly.

    “Of course the boys talk more,” was the near-universal response. “That’s what boys do.”
    And here is the issue... the men, even though a minority... participate way too much on class... for the taste of this feminist.

    This experience is not unique to me, nor to Wesleyan. People (and by “people,” I mean “men”) who believe that institutional sexism is no longer a pressing issue love to point out that women make up around 57 percent of college students, and thus cannot possibly face obstacles in seeking an education. The real story of gender and education is a bit more complicated, as around the world, from elementary to grad school, study after study after study has found that men speak more in class.
    Simple solutions can be that men should not be able to enroll on higher education... and if they do they need to sign a paper saying that they are not allow to participate?

    To explain this better... if you are in a classroom you do want to be notice, you do want the professor to see that you have an interest on the topic, you do want to ask a question when the professor ask if there is any question... you do want to give an answer when the professor ask a question... You do want to learn the topic and you do want to get good grades... and this is how you do it.

    This is rarely intentional, especially at supposedly progressive schools like Wesleyan, where few men consciously believe they are smarter or more deserving of class time than their female peers. It’s also not entirely the students’ fault; by consistently paying more attention and giving more constructive feedback to boys than to girls, teachers and professors play a major role in creating an unequal classroom environment. This phenomenon is so well documented that it has a name: the chilly climate. The chilly climate, a term popularized by researchers Bernice Sandler and Roberta Hall, refers to an educational environment that “subtly or overtly communicates different expectations for women,” and there are countless ways for teachers to contribute to this climate. Instructors at virtually every grade level have been found more likely to call on boys, more likely to tolerate interruptions coming from boys, more likely to address boys by name, and more likely to give long, thoughtful responses to boys’ questions and comments.
    You want constructive feedback? Don't say stupid shit.

    Furthermore, most people are blissfully unaware of this bias. Unless they hear recordings of their classes played back to them, teachers generally believe they are spending equal time on their male and female students, and when they do call on men and women equally, they report feeling that the women are “dominating” the discussion. As a result of this constant, subtle discrimination, women tend to be much more cautious about voicing their opinions. They are far more likely to phrase their comments as questions or to use excessive qualifiers (“I think,” “perhaps,” “it seems possible”). They are perceived as less confident and thus less knowledgeable, and their contributions to the class are further devalued, leading to increased cautiousness in a terrible and endless cycle. And before you tell me about the girl in your government class who won’t shut up, or about how you always got terrible participation grades in high school, please don’t. I’m fully aware that classroom participation varies widely among both men and women, and that often, the majority of students don’t participate at all. But as a group, there’s no denying that men are taking up more than their fair share of class time.
    I think, we should not discard the theory that you are less knowledgeable... you see??? perhaps, while you was having your "lazy summer" it is possible that those guys where cranking up books and working hard to be ready for university... After all it is quite possible that they are paying their education of their own money... so I would say that they want to make the most they can out of it... it seems possible that they will not invest hundreds of thousands of dollars on it, and then just have a "lazy summer", don't you think that they will find out what topics are going to be in those classes? if the professor wrote a book, they will read it? they will talk to other students that toke that class before? ask for advice?... If all you did to prepare yourself was to have a "lazy summer", perhaps, you are not prepare at all to be in that classroom... I think...

    In the last paragraph I did use excessive qualifiers (“I think,” “perhaps,” “it seems possible”) and phrased my points as questions... did it come weak and unknowledgeable?

    This phenomenon is hardly limited to the classroom. Men dominate casual conversations, professional meetings, every possible genre of journalism, and even Twitter. Because men are constantly being told that their opinions are worth hearing, they are confident enough to constantly express their opinions. And because women are incorrectly perceived as the more talkative sex, they struggle to push back against this deeply entrenched sexism without being labeled as aggressive or unreasonable. There’s no easy solution to this maddeningly persistent issue, but there are several steps each individual can take. Teachers need to make a constant, genuine effort to listen to and respect their female students. Women need to remind themselves that they deserve to be heard as much as anyone else.
    I am pretty sure girls are being told all that "believe in yourself" stuff and much more...

    So as giving solutions we have so far that teachers need to start ignoring boys while girls need to participate more... anything else?

    And men?

    You guys need to take a step back.
    And there it is... for those that though I was being dramatic when I say that the solution was that men don't participate.. here it is... the solution to this issue is that men need to shut the fuck up.
    Last edited by simpleman; 04-22-2017, 01:35 PM.

  • #2
    So she gets to assert blatant falsehoods, like men are constantly being told their opinions are worth hearing, when it's the reverse situation, a small proportion of males speak up in class, she wants to shut them up because she doesn't like listening to them, and she immediately gets published and praised.

    Males speak up because they get interested in the topic and want to participate. They don't wait to be given the floor or be facilitated for the precise reason that no one ever does that for them, nor ever would. If men don't want to speak up for the themselves society is quite happy to ignore them and be quite content if the go and quietly kill themselves with the minimum inconvenience to everyone else.

    Male education should not be constantly compromised by females seeking to undermine their experience because they hate males and want to silence them. She makes no reference to the value of the contribution males make, no assertion that they ask bad questions, make incorrect points or speak up just to promote themselves. She just doesn't like they they naturally and exuberantly come forward with their opinions and views. This is wrong because this isn't how she wants them to behave and action from authority is needed to silence them.

    I think males should have their own separate education, there is no such thing as co education where males won't become the target of sexist abuse by feminist students. Once a group can abuse power, is being encourage to abuse power and being rewarded for that abuse it will simply grow and grow.

    Sexism in women, any woman, needs to exposed and called out. There is no such thing as equal treatment, without equal treatment.
    "...especially when it comes to communication, it can be observed, if it is not a negotiation it's a war."
    Originally posted by menrppl2
    Can't live with em, life is great without them.


    • #3
      Originally posted by simpleman View Post
      Feminist go to university, the majority of her classmates are women... but she still fell oppress ...
      It's hard to know where to begin .... except perhaps saying that I agree with Voidspawn.

      But to restrain it to a single topic: there is a lot to learn here about "feminist scholarship", because here we see it in the making.

      - Sprachregelung
      When there are areas where women have high participation in traditional men's occupations, they are said to be "well represented". When men are "well represented", they "dominate".
      Domination is a "Bad" word, like tyranny, violence, oppression - and by this simple expedient, a statistical fact becomes a moral accusation.

      - The Reverse Mirror Image Fallacy (or The Zero Sum Fallacy)
      "Because men are constantly being told that their opinions are worth hearing, they are confident enough to constantly express their opinions."
      I don't know many demographics who are usually more insecure than teenage boys ... but if women do not have confidence, it must be somewhere else, and if the boys act as if they have confidence, that means that perhaps they have taken, and are now using, the girls' confidence.
      So, if there is anything the girls don't have, then the boys must have it.

      - False Causation
      - "/Girls/ are far more likely to phrase their comments as questions or to use excessive qualifiers ("I think," "perhaps," "it seems possible")."
      Perhaps because women always tailor their speech to evoke being-likedness...?

      - Only Parity is Equality Fallacy
      " are taking up more than their fair share of class time..."
      What is men's fair share? There is no rule of fairness in class time sharing ever given explicitly.
      So the reader cannot judge the truth of this statement.

      Another great source of entertainment, in the maniacal laugh vein, are some of the articles linked to by way of support.

      One study that "shows" that "men talk more at school" is a study from Vancouver on one class - which would be what, 40, 50 students max? - consisting of Sikhs and Punjabis ... where the women are more silent .... who'd have guessed ...

      Then there are feminist researchers "setting the record straight" on who is talkative: and

      This is rightfully Maxx' territory, because this is a power analysis where the feminist scrabbles like crazy to twist all explanations away from obvious gender typical traits to discrimination.

      "When women and men are together, it is the men who talk most .... I found the same pattern analysing the number of questions asked by participants in one hundred public seminars. In all but seven, men dominated the discussion time.
      Where the numbers of women and men present were about the same, men asked almost two-thirds of the questions during the discussion."

      This is the Wikipedia Dilemma. Of all the people willing to make voluntary contributions, 70 % are men.
      IOW, women are not willing to put in effort for free. But somehow, that is men's fault.
      This is closely related to the CEO Dichotomy, where men desire it to build a better device/future, while women focus on the status and bling.

      A corollary of this is that these feminists aren't able to present "interest in the topic", or "intellectual curiosity" as a motivation - for them, as for women in general, the world begins and ends with interpersonal relationships, and this is the only dimension of analysis and understanding:

      "One relative clue is the fact that talk serves different functions in different contexts. Formal public talk is often aimed at informing people or persuading them to agree to a particular point of view (e.g. political speeches, television debates, radio interviews, public lectures, etc.).
      Public talk is often undertaken by people who wish to claim or confirm some degree of public status. Effective talk in public and in the media can enhance your social status – as politicians and other public performers know well.
      Getting and holding the floor is regarded as desirable, and competition for the floor in such contexts is common. "

      There is a slight suspicion that there may be something there:
      "If you know a lot about a particular topic, you are generally more likely to be willing to contribute to a discussion about it.
      So familiarity or expertise can also affect the amount a person contributes to a particular discussion ....", but the article manages to summarize this as .... "Social Confidence" ... sigh.

      What is not brought out about all this "discrimination" is that, apart from boys participating in class, it consists of teachers giving different feedback to boys and females. And we all know who the teachers are.

      " ... Teachers ... tend to talk for about two-thirds of the available time. But the boys dominate the relatively small share of the talking time that remains for pupils. In this context, where talk is clearly valued, it appears that the person with most status has the right to talk most. ..."
      Oh, it "appears", does it? Code word for: Watch me write the conclusion into the data.

      And so ... "... on this evidence we must conclude that the stereotype of the garrulous woman reflects sexist prejudice rather than objective reality ...".

      Yeah, right ....



      • #4
        Men speak up more because they're naturally assertive, or more assertive than most girls at least.

        This behavior in male students needs to be praised and encouraged rather than be put down, which is a disgrace.

        The best thing for that girl to do is hope that she gets to be born male in her next lifetime.

        Other than that, stop hating.