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  • Advice needed.

    As I briefly mentioned some months ago (I don't remember exactly when, mid-summer) I had taken in a homeless 'kid'. At the time he was 18, living on the streets and no ID. He was constantly begging around my place of work, that's how I met him. I took him to a Taco Bell around the corner, fed him a couple of times, chatted, and got to know him. At first, because I have children, I wasn't willing to bring him home. So I took him to a homeless shelter but this particular shelter was a first come first serve shelter that had very limited capacity so he was still having to sleep on the streets some nights. So, I have a friend who owns some land that he uses for him and his hippie friends to hang out on when they're not on the road going from gathering to gathering. I loaned him my tent, showed him a place where he could continue begging if he wanted, but he'd have people with him to keep him company and keep him safe. During this time I'd periodically swing by and drop off some supplies. During this time we started working on getting his ID. Social security card, birth certificate, state ID. That stuff. Lots of red tape later and we got the first piece, his birth certificate. Then, with some letters personally vouching for who he was, including one from his mother, we managed to get his social security card. Unfortunately, things took a turn for the worse. I changed jobs which affected my financial ability and my friend and his hippie buddies decided they wanted to go to one last gathering before they headed south for the winter. By then, I'd gotten to know the kid better. So, making the best of it, I let him move in.

    I think I should point out that he was homeless because he'd run away from his aunt's house. His mom had started dating a guy when the kid was 14. This guy was abusive and CPS had stepped in and said the kid or the guy. His mom chose to give the kid to her sister, his aunt, and keep the guy. The aunt and her husband, while not abusive, were very neglectful. He basically lived on the street anyway, so rather than live on the street AND deal with their crap, he ran away. Cut back to him moving in.

    So, "now" (early November) he's moved in and he's trying to get a job. But he can't, no one will hire him without at least a GED. So I tutor the kid. A few days before Thanksgiving, he takes the test, he fails. But only just. So I tutor him some more in the areas he failed at. A couple weeks later he retook the test, and passed. This was about a week before Christmas. With GED and IDs in hand, we get him a job. Now, due to the season they don't want to hire him, officially, until after the start of the new year. In fact, the hiring manager comes back from vacation Wednesday and his orientation is Thursday. BTW, he's now 19. The plan is he's going to work where I work (easier on rides) until Spring. This gives him about 3 months to save up. So what's the problem?

    He refers to my 1 yr old son as his "bubby" (brother) and he's already planning to blow his entire first paycheck. New phone, new shoes (he's already got new shoes), and to take me and my family out to eat. I'm concerned he's going to spend all of his money and not save up and move out and that I may be forced to kick him back out onto the street. I don't think he wants to move out. I think he's enjoying being taken care of too much. Perhaps I'm tooting my own horn here but I'm concerned he's relishing some sort of pseudo role of a child to make up for his shitty childhood. A Peter Pan syndrome, if you will. I can teach him about budgeting and finances until I'm blue in the face. But teaching personal responsibility and accountability takes more than a few months and I don't have that kind of time to give him. No one stands on their own two feet until they want to. Until then, someone's couch or the gutters will suffice. How do I get him to want to stand on his own two feet and how do I do so in just shy of 90 days?

  • #2
    Good luck. I had to evict someone I was kind to one time. It cost a ton of money for the lawyer and I had the vampire in my home the whole time. No good deed seems to go unpunished these days.

    I hope your situation ends up better. For what it is worth, I think you have assessed things correctly with regard to his motivations. Unfortunately he did have a shit upbringing. He's going to have to go through the whole teenage growth arc before he is in a place where he can even start to be responsible. Who knows how long that will take.

    You should ask yourself though, is this whole plan his or yours? I rail against the concept of covert contracts quite a bit because I think the concept is used to absolve women of responsibility. In this case though, it sounds like you may have done a covert contract with this kid. If so, you need to start by clearly telling him what you will provide and what you expect from him in return. Make sure he understands that goal is getting him on his feet and in his own place.

    Perhaps you can tell him that you appreciate the gesture regarding taking you all out to eat, but he should use that money as a security deposit on an apartment. Use some tact. It won't be an easy conversation.
    I used to think collapse was inevitable. Now I realize it is necessary.

    It was only a matter of time before the bicycles realized that they in fact did not need the fish.

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    • #3
      id and ged is on his feet you should be proud of yourself

      otherwise, cant save the world and no good deed goes unpunished comes to mind.

      kid with his first paycheque.....what are ya going to do, maybe just vicariously celebrate the accomplishment

      being straight forward he needs to prepare for moveout on a specific date sounds like a plan. and what pbisque says about dinner out
      A man can gain no more respect than by, laying down his life for a woman. And a woman, no more than by, beating down a man. For a man to ask, what is fair and good and true and just, is to offend.

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      • #4
        Not advice, really, just thinking out loud

        Originally posted by JamesNunya View Post
        /... JN is a good man ... / He refers to my 1 yr old son as his "bubby" (brother) and he's already planning to blow his entire first paycheck. New phone, new shoes (he's already got new shoes), and to take me and my family out to eat.
        Wanting to take you out to eat is a nice gesture, showing he knows where the good things came from;
        and - possibly, just making up stuff here - reclaiming some of his dignity, in which case it would hurt to be rejected.
        Would it be possible for you to accept with the condition that he does it once he has his first xxx,50 USD on a savings account?
        Teaching him to spend a slice of surplus, instead of going broke two weeks before next payday?

        I'm concerned he's going to spend all of his money and not save up and move out and that I may be forced to kick him back out onto the street.
        Is the street the only alternative to your house? Could he afford some cheap lodgings? Stay with some neighbour or elderly couple that can rent out a spare room cheap against e.g. some yard work and fence painting? A last desperate measure: pay (part of?) his rent somewhere else, just to keep him off the street and at the same time not under your roof?

        I don't think he wants to move out. I think he's enjoying being taken care of too much.
        Kids want to be taken care of, and neglected kids probably want that more than other kids. I.e., not a character weakness, but basic developmental psychology.
        He must feelt hat something incredibly good has happend to him, and he wants to stay near you and with you guys.
        _If_ that is so, I can hardly blame him.
        (Still, that doesn't solve your problem.)

        Perhaps I'm tooting my own horn here but I'm concerned he's relishing some sort of pseudo role of a child to make up for his shitty childhood.
        ... rehashing the happy childhood he never had ... can't say I blame him ... kids aren't born stoics.
        (Still, that doesn't solve your problem.)

        I can teach him about budgeting and finances until I'm blue in the face. But teaching personal responsibility and accountability takes more than a few months
        Yup. You can't really teach character, that is formed by following a good role model; and that takes time.
        But how about setting him up so that there is some form of built-in external control? Having his employer send a portion directly to a savings account, instead of handing it over, i.e keeping the money out of his hands as much as possible ...?

        How do I get him to want to stand on his own two feet and how do I do so in just shy of 90 days?
        Go to the library and ask for books with inspiring stories, show him one good one, and, placing all your authority behind it, tell him that you think that " this one, number seven, is true", and has an important lesson to teach about what is good and how we should live. That's something he can take with him and always keep.
        The point would be to get him to embrace some goals, i.e. become aware that he is acting on a timeline, which will present him with all his failures and successes as consequences of earlier actions.
        If he's a bright kid, don't be afraid to talk to him in a grown-up manner; they often grasp a lot more than we think.

        Have you done any grapevine work? Tell 15 friends and neighbours, throw a big /togetherness of some kind/ where he gets to meet a lot of folks?
        In the best of worlds, you might be able to pass him forward.

        I'm sorry if all of this is completely and utterly ( ___expletive deleted____ season to taste) - just trying to come up with something which might address the problem and still stay within some realistic scope for a one-man army (although even the latter is something I assume, since I live somewhere else). I hope more people will help brainstorm a little.

        Anyway, good luck to you. I hope you don't have to make a difficult choice, but if you have to, it looks like you're one of the guys who could get it right.
        And no matter what you decide, you've already done a heck of a lot of good, and I think we'd all support you no matter what you decide, because there are good and valid reasons for both choices.

        My esoterically gifted friend maintains that "Buddha will provide", i.e. the very thing you need just when you need it.
        Not exactly what I think; but I'm willing to make an exception in your case

        HNY.

        M

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        • #5
          You're a better person than I am, that's for sure. But be careful, some people are good at hiding their inner thoughts, and while you think you may know him, you may end up realizing that you do not. He is a streetwise adult who may or may not be a psychopath (not necessarily in the violent sense, just that he may try to 'use' you for as long as he can, and his affection to you and your family might just be a sham in order to further his intentions). I've been fucked over enough times so that I do not trust people until they prove themselves trustworthy...just too many bullshitters in the world.
          Last edited by oldblueeyes; 01-05-2018, 01:38 PM.
          Stay single and prosper!

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          • #6
            I would advise you to start charging him rent after a certain period. And also offer to help him find a place. When I first got out on my own it was a similar thing for me. I was couch surfing for like a year before I had enough money to get a place. But a friends parents offered to put me up, and had they charged me less rent I could have been out of there sooner, but regardless wanting my own place won out.

            I agree that some of the other posters about his emotional health. He has been shunned and neglected by his family. If you are serious about his health you may want to consider letting him stay longer. It could do him good to see that someone is willing to stick it out and be family. In the end he has to stand up on his own. How he gets there is up to him.

            Sometimes I feel like the only answers are bad and less bad. Best of luck.

            Comment


            • #7
              Just a few points.

              He's not family. Point blank and period. Not by any means.
              I'm not some saint, there are days I want to just drop him off in the middle of the woods and say "best of luck".
              I want him to do good on his own so that I no longer see him every day and no longer support him.
              I'm considering my hippy friend's commune as a last ditch drop off. They should be back some time in the spring.
              While I would hate to just throw him out into the street (all that effort for nothing). I would still do so. He's better prepared to succeed on his own now and I gave him a safe haven from this shitty winter.
              I don't want to charge him rent. Two reasons. One, less money for him to save up for his own place. Two, renters have rights.

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              • #8
                actually renters only have rights when they don't share a bathroom or kitchen......just sayin

                you can throw them out on a whim, if its on the 2nd, its up to them to recover rent thru civil court, not rental court.

                otherwise tell him what ya told us......what in your world ppl put caring about your feelings over themself?

                and after he leaves can I move in b/c nobodies been that nice to me in my life.

                I once thought I was getting a free lunch.......but im still paying for it 35 yrs later.
                Last edited by menrppl2; 01-07-2018, 09:48 PM.
                A man can gain no more respect than by, laying down his life for a woman. And a woman, no more than by, beating down a man. For a man to ask, what is fair and good and true and just, is to offend.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by JamesNunya View Post
                  As I briefly mentioned some months ago
                  wow, so what you described is almost identical to the girl i tried to help.....and ended up being charged for sexual assault/rape for.....

                  crazy. count yourself lucky the kid has no family and count yourself lucky he's male!

                  Originally posted by menrppl2 View Post
                  actually renters only have rights when they don't share a bathroom or kitchen......just sayin

                  you can throw them out on a whim.
                  yep. and theres ways around all that in canada too.. you can put a clause in your rental agreement that one room is yours to live in. you tell the tenant you'll never use it but its your way out.. should they stiff you..you can move in 1 night and kick them out. cause you live there.

                  done.




                  as far as advice. i would talk to the kid, tell him. you're trying to help him get a start but you're not his dad and you dont want to carry him. you want to boost him. and you'd love for him to save..get his own place and learn. and once thats all done you should get a beer with him once a week..you know?
                  Last edited by TheNarrator; 01-09-2018, 12:47 AM.
                  Originally posted by MatrixTransform
                  where were you before you put yourself last?
                  Originally posted by TheNarrator
                  Everywhere I travel, tiny life. Single-serving sugar, single-serving cream, single pat of butter. The microwave Cordon Bleu hobby kit. Shampoo-conditioner combos, sample-packaged mouthwash, tiny bars of soap. The people I meet on each flight? They're single-serving friends.

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                  • #10
                    LOL I brought the topic up of him saving up instead of spending all of his money. He got mad, threatened to move out now. I went to the local grocery store, grabbed a bunch of boxes from a friend that works there, came up and gave them to him. He got over it real quick.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JamesNunya View Post
                      LOL I brought the topic up of him saving up instead of spending all of his money. He got mad, threatened to move out now. I went to the local grocery store, grabbed a bunch of boxes from a friend that works there, came up and gave them to him. He got over it real quick.
                      so what happened?
                      he's gonna save now?
                      Originally posted by MatrixTransform
                      where were you before you put yourself last?
                      Originally posted by TheNarrator
                      Everywhere I travel, tiny life. Single-serving sugar, single-serving cream, single pat of butter. The microwave Cordon Bleu hobby kit. Shampoo-conditioner combos, sample-packaged mouthwash, tiny bars of soap. The people I meet on each flight? They're single-serving friends.

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                      • #12
                        We'll see. This happened less than 24 hours ago.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          k, i recommend talking to him. not bullying him. but thats me.
                          Originally posted by MatrixTransform
                          where were you before you put yourself last?
                          Originally posted by TheNarrator
                          Everywhere I travel, tiny life. Single-serving sugar, single-serving cream, single pat of butter. The microwave Cordon Bleu hobby kit. Shampoo-conditioner combos, sample-packaged mouthwash, tiny bars of soap. The people I meet on each flight? They're single-serving friends.

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                          • #14
                            I didn't bully him. I called his bluff.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JamesNunya View Post
                              I didn't bully him. I called his bluff.
                              in a way you did. you could have handled it a lot more neutral.

                              but its hard to do that when its two men dealing with issues like these. either way it turned out okay i think.
                              Originally posted by MatrixTransform
                              where were you before you put yourself last?
                              Originally posted by TheNarrator
                              Everywhere I travel, tiny life. Single-serving sugar, single-serving cream, single pat of butter. The microwave Cordon Bleu hobby kit. Shampoo-conditioner combos, sample-packaged mouthwash, tiny bars of soap. The people I meet on each flight? They're single-serving friends.

                              Comment

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