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The ambivalence of being an immigrant kid

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  • The ambivalence of being an immigrant kid



    My father spent most of his life as a stateless refugee.

    Following the armenian genocide, on his mother's knee, they went from place to place.

    Greece wouldn't give them citizenship, neither did Lebanon or Syria and when WW2 broke out, governments could only spare bread for their own citizens.

    My grandmother was a seamstress and taught my father the craft, together they survived by buying fabric and making suits.

    In this manner they managed to avoid starvation and even took in an orphan boy whom I came to know as my uncle Ruben.

    The US was the first and only country that said, "Yes, come to us, be our citizen."

    My father was always grateful for this and raised me with that same gratitude.

    He always said, "Son, be grateful because you don't know what's out there. This is the greatest country in the world."

    From 2 years old I was raised in New York City, knowing only the kindness of my teachers and other adults.

    One time when I was 6 or 7 years old, after misbehaving in class, I was punished by putting me into a "special needs" class.

    There I began to cry, and was comforted by much older students who seemed to have downs syndrome.

    I can relate many stories like this, I don't know if it's typical, but I've been treated with kindness more often than not.

    It left its mark on me, and I have a soft spot for people whom society would otherwise reject or ridicule.

    Fast forward about 40 years.

    America is more polarized than I have ever seen it.

    My core pro-American feelings remain, but often torn between seemingly bleeding-heart lefty Americanism vs seemingly embattled nationalist righty Americanism.

    It's like your parents are getting a divorce and you are forced to choose sides between which parent you support more.

    I call myself a "political moderate."

    All that means is that I love both of my parents and wish we could be a family.

    In truth I've always had strong liberal feelings, a liberal soul.

    But today's liberal doesn't mean what liberal meant 20 or 30 years ago.

    Today's liberal is not, "We should do for our fellow human beings. We should try to be nice to each other."

    Today's liberal is, "You owe me whitey. You took our land. You robbed the planet. You did xyz. Fuck you whitey. Fuck you men."

    And likewise "conservative" used to mean, "no socialism, small government."

    Now it means, "No muzzies, no mexicans, anti-immigrant, etc etc."

    I want the old America back.

    I want Reagan back.

    Or even Carter or Bush.

    Trump is such an asshole, why did you assholes elect this guy.

    Why can't Democrats field a candidate other than that witch Hillary Clinton.

    Why is every election in this country a choice between 2 shit sandwiches.


  • #2
    rough waters make good sailors

    idle hands are the devils tools
    A man can gain no more respect than by, laying down his life for a woman. And a woman, no more than by, beating down a man. For a man to ask, what is fair and good and true and just, is to offend.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by dubs View Post
      why did you assholes elect this guy.

      People across the west desperately want change. They are fed up with the establishment, with the non-stop lies, the double standards, the hypocrisy etc. People latch on to anyone that comes along and seems different. They voted for Obama because they thought he was going to be different. Turns out he wasn't. They have now voted for Trump hoping that he would be different.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by dubs View Post
        ...
        Why can't Democrats field a candidate other than that witch Hillary Clinton.

        Why is every election in this country a choice between 2 shit sandwiches.
        They have this all over the West now... left or right... they are both entrenched dogmatic and without integrity.
        My favorite would have been Bernie Sanders, but watching him cede his platform to WOC agitators in Seattle and I realized he was too weak - to be POTUS.
        ~~~ PEr aRDUa ad asTrA ~~~
        (through adversity to the stars)

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dubs View Post
          It left its mark on me, and I have a soft spot for people whom society would otherwise reject or ridicule.
          I am not trying to be funny here... you are really good at hiding that soft spot thing...

          America is more polarized than I have ever seen it.
          I think people is just tired of the BS...

          THere have being decades of conversation between the so call "issues" and nothing have come out of it... Then you have the guys that are straight up haters, so you know what you can expect from them... and on the other corner you have the guys... that I don't know if I can call them lovers... but they mean well and want to help, but their help sucks and more than often end up creating more problems than solutions...

          Why can't Democrats field a candidate other than that witch Hillary Clinton.
          That is a BS argument...

          This is the acknowledgment of the people that voted for Trump to agree that Trump is a mess up leader with a lot of bad policies and who have increased the division you talking about...

          But their excuse for it is that "Hillary was worse"... and then come with this stupid claim that anybody but Hillary was acceptable... and the true is not... all this guys would have pick Trump over any other, because they really agree with what he say..

          You are goign to tell me that if the democrats advance Bernie instead... people would have gone for him over Trump?

          The true is that people that voted for trump are at some level racists, even if they deny it, they must know they are... and what Trump said sounded like music for their ears, so they voted for him... and then come with this BS excuse that "Hillary is worse"... like if it was someone different than her then they would have not express their racism on the vote?


          Why is every election in this country a choice between 2 shit sandwiches.
          Get ready for a long time of Trump up there... because if he run again he have my vote.. and after that I will vote for his daughter, and his grandson and his cat... I am set up for a Trump dinasty already...

          Why?

          Because the racist policies of Trump hurt the racist people that voted for him, more that actually hurting the target of those policies...

          So I assure you, I will do anything I can to have that racist in the white house, until all the racist people that voted for him feel the pain and decide that their own racism is BS.

          Comment


          • #6


            I think "racism" is often a nartural reaction to other people's bullshit.

            "We was kangs! Fuck you whitey! You stole our land! Reconquista!"

            You give me a choice between killing myself or killing you.

            The answer is gonna be killing you every time.

            Mexicans come to the border, "Please, may we come in?" The answer is probably yes.

            Mexicans come to the border, "This is our land! You have no right to keep us out!" The answer is coming at muzzle velocity.

            As long as the left pushes a narrative of grievance.

            As long as the left pushes a narrative of anti-white and anti-male rhetoric.

            Then it's not the "Liberalism" that I know and understand.

            Billions for defense, not one penny for tribute.

            You forced a Trump reaction.

            You're on an MRA site, you have to ask why people didn't vote for Hillary? Didn't you get enough beatings to understand why?

            I'm going to echo what someone else said in this thread.

            I was down with Bernie until he let himself get pushed off the podium by BLM.

            If you can't even stand up to black nationalists, how can you be President.

            Niggers are a pestelence, an affliction, a worldwide disease. Like cancer.

            I say "niggers" to differentiate from "black people."

            There's "black people" and there's "niggers."

            Black people ok, niggers not ok.

            Americans of Latino or Mexican descent ok, "Mexicans" not ok.

            It's not a DNA thing, it's a culture thing.

            I don't care about anyone's DNA.

            Wiggers can get shot too.


            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by dubs View Post
              I think "racism" is often a nartural reaction to other people's bullshit.
              I don't think so... thi is actually another BS excuse.

              I am aware that at some level I am racist... at least I feel attracted to white women and to latino women, but no so much to asiatic and black...

              So by today standards, I am a racist, but at least I differentiate myself from other racist in the fact that I don't hate them, I actually appreciate their culture and I can be friend with everybody who is a good person, regardless of color... that said... no everybody gives me a boner.

              So, by definition, I am a racist... though the people that voted for Trump give me the impression that they are very anger driven... some of them even hate.

              As long as the left pushes a narrative of grievance.
              But the grievance is real... the black communities are still suffering the consequences of bad previous policies... and even some modern policies.

              Billions for defense, not one penny for tribute.
              I think your soft spot is not really that soft?

              I'm going to echo what someone else said in this thread.

              I was down with Bernie until he let himself get pushed off the podium by BLM.
              Ok so anyone but Hillary and Bernie would have win against Trump.. that is correct? If you want to we can go down the whole list of Democrats candidates... you started your list with Hillary, now it have 2 names... I am pretty sure your list will get a lot more longer...

              If you can't even stand up to black nationalists, how can you be President.
              Trump does not stand up to white nationalism and he is the president.. I guess the answer to your questions is... the same way Trump does.. but instead of white, black.. does that work?

              Niggers are a pestelence, an affliction, a worldwide disease. Like cancer.

              I say "niggers" to differentiate from "black people."
              No you don't... you say niggers to differentiate the color of the skin... nigger actually means black...

              If you wanted to say something that was not racial but cultural I am sure there is a more appropriate word for it... instead of using this word and then explaining for the next 1o paragraphs that you didn't meant it on a racist way...

              You could have pick a word that didn't meant blacks...

              It's not a DNA thing, it's a culture thing.
              And what is the part of the african and latin american culture that you don't like?

              The language? the religion? the music? the food???

              Comment


              • #8


                Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                I am aware that at some level I am racist... at least I feel attracted to white women and to latino women, but no so much to asiatic and black...
                Maybe at some level you're a homophobe too for not dating men.

                lol

                Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                I think your soft spot is not really that soft?
                By framing it this way, you're inadvertantly admitting that immigration is good for them and bad for us.

                You're saying, "C'mon have a heart."

                I do have a heart but charity has limits, it cannot drive the agenda.

                Blacks aren't slowing their reproduction to help us deal with their shitty population, if anything they're pushing out more thuglets that we all have feed, house and deal with.

                After all it's your own Lubavitchers that are often the target of "knockout game" in Crown Heights.

                Mexicans aren't that bad, but also not %100 compatible.

                Acapulco used to be a nice vacation spot, now you can't even walk on the beach without getting robbed and murdered.

                "Hai gais I have an idea, let's bring em to Vienna!"

                Are you stupid? Tell me, are you?

                We've had centuries of progressive experiments, "class, poverty, blah blah blah" and none of it has produced anything useful.

                Just marxist gibberish and globalist agenda.

                By now you probably understand that Trump is one of your fellow Jews.

                And more and more Jews are jumping ship from the globalist agenda.

                They're seeing that it's not sustainable, neither in Israel nor anywhere else.

                PS - There are a small percentage of blacks that are worthy to exist and become part of the human family, these I will call "Black people." The rest are a plague on humanity.

                PPS - I have only recently come to the conclusion that I don't believe in the freedom or democracy, as I don't have faith that these ideas are capable of dealing with the "big" problems of the world or guiding humanity to a better place. If you have 8 billion "individuals" none of them agree on anything and they all get in each other's way. I'm starting to understand why people like Stalin threw millions of people in the gulags, if only to get the remainder of his countrymen to "fly in formation." At the end of the day, sadly, I feel like it's the only way for governmental bodies to actually get anything done. While I don't feel committed enough to call myself a fascist or communist (or any ist) I do feel confident in saying that the Dark Enlightenment idea has some merit.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                  The true is that people that voted for trump are at some level racists, even if they deny it, they must know they are... and what Trump said sounded like music for their ears, so they voted for him... and then come with this BS excuse that "Hillary is worse"... like if it was someone different than her then they would have not express their racism on the vote?
                  I don't think you're stupid, so I'm having a really hard time seeing how you can be this incredibly myopic.

                  Are you familiar with Occam's Razor?

                  Some people voted for Trump for Judicial Appointments.
                  Some people voted for Trump because of Abortion.
                  Some people voted for Trump because of Fiscal Policy.
                  Some people voted for Trump because of Immigration.
                  Some people voted for Trump because they thought Hillary was terrible choice.

                  But despite the myriad of actual reasons someone might cast a vote, you truly believe that everyone votes based solely on racial lines? Despite the fact that the two primary candidates are white, voting for one white person over the other is clearly motivated primarily by racism?

                  I mean, when I first read this I was a little angry, but now I realize that it's actually just sad. It's tragic that the US has allowed actual conversation on the issues to be reduced down to "You vote in lockstep with me or you're racist/sexist/xenophboe/homophobe"

                  It's bullshit. We used to call that the "ad hominem" logical fallacy and reject it as irrelevant to the argument.Now we use it as a blanket accusation to quench arguments or people we don't like.

                  The truth is that a valid argument made by a racist is still a valid argument. That doesn't absolve the person of being a racist, but neither does their racism negate their arguments.

                  Racist: The sky appears blue.
                  Moron: You're racist the sky can't be blue.

                  I'd suggest you consider the possibility that people vote in a more sophisticated way than simply based on skin color. You'll probably have more meaningful conversations with people than if you simply accuse them of being bigots.
                  Last edited by Mifune; 11-08-2018, 02:07 PM.
                  "...but when she goes off you, she will not just walk away, she will walk away with your fucking skin in a jar." ~~ DoctorRandomercam
                  "The laws of man, they don't apply when blood gets in a woman's eye" - The Black Keys

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    For dubs:

                    "...but when she goes off you, she will not just walk away, she will walk away with your fucking skin in a jar." ~~ DoctorRandomercam
                    "The laws of man, they don't apply when blood gets in a woman's eye" - The Black Keys

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.”
                      ― Alexander Fraser Tytler

                      2018 - 1776 = 242 years.

                      In 8 years the US will be 250. I don't know what the standard deviation for Mr. Tyller's 200 years is, but I'm guessing we're pushing passed at least the first std dev.

                      One would hope that the representative nature of the US government would provide some barrier against voting for largesse. But the escalating speed of communication and ability for people to quickly reach out to their representatives, coupled with those representatives being less concerned with principle and more concerned with votes effectively makes the US's representative government a Democracy by Proxy.
                      "...but when she goes off you, she will not just walk away, she will walk away with your fucking skin in a jar." ~~ DoctorRandomercam
                      "The laws of man, they don't apply when blood gets in a woman's eye" - The Black Keys

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I mean, when I first read this I was a little angry, but now I realize that it's actually just sad. It's tragic that the US has allowed actual conversation on the issues to be reduced down to "You vote in lockstep with me or you're racist/sexist/xenophboe/homophobe"
                        I'm thinking now of people that have chose so many terrible leaders in the pass... I wonder for instance how many people that voted for Hitler (yeah, overused example, but I am too lazy now to come with other bad democratic leader) did it because his policies on balanced budget and kinda prefer not to notice some other ideas of him... no that those particular people where (in this case) anti semitic... though... I don't think you can just excuse them that way...

                        By the way I agree in that Hillary is not much better...

                        I'd suggest you consider the possibility that people vote in a more sophisticated way than simply based on skin color. You'll probably have more meaningful conversations with people than if you simply accuse them of being bigots.
                        I'm not trying to be mean here... I think Dubs have nothing more for me, after few rounds of many pages of debates... there is pretty little inside that skull that might interest me...

                        About the part of accusing people of being bigots... I don't really see myself as the accusatory kind... It is more like.. Dubs likes to preach his higher moral values well developed on his superior culture of his super advanced civilization... and if you ever care to dig a bit... it is all BS... hit him a bit and you will see how easy all that stuff cracks and crumbles...

                        At least I know that I am morally analphabeth... the only way I know what is good and what is bad is by observing people and figuring out what is the moral medium... and then there is those times when people just change their mind...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dubs View Post
                          Maybe at some level you're a homophobe too for not dating men.

                          lol
                          I am not surprise if someone actually make this argument for real...

                          In the upper side... I am pretty much out of the dating game... so at least on that... I treat everybody equal.

                          By framing it this way, you're inadvertantly admitting that immigration is good for them and bad for us.
                          Then again... I don't think it is "them" or "us"...

                          Working out a solution that benefits all should not be that hard... but that is not the point... is it?

                          Probably I am sinning of idealist here.. but I do see potential on the people on that caravan thing... they can be good and productive members of the society... granted, none of them will be a Nobel Prize... but no everybody need to be... there is a lot of more roles in society to fill and to do...

                          The thing is that people like Trump and his followers do not see any of this potential... they probably see a flock of parasites wanting to leach out from US... or some like that... even more... I think you and your "soft heart" are of this exact opinion.

                          You're saying, "C'mon have a heart."
                          It is more like you are saying that you have a heart... like if I care for your spontaneous virtue signals... I am just pointing out that you don't have the 10% of the heart you claim to have.

                          Blacks aren't slowing their reproduction to help us deal with their shitty population, if anything they're pushing out more thuglets that we all have feed, house and deal with.
                          I don't think the black population is shitty...

                          Acapulco used to be a nice vacation spot, now you can't even walk on the beach without getting robbed and murdered.
                          Oh nooo.. what are you going to do? have found a new place to walk by?

                          Are you stupid? Tell me, are you?
                          I don't know... probably yes...

                          By now you probably understand that Trump is one of your fellow Jews.
                          Someone commented to me that they didn't give him a warm welcoming when he visited that Synagogue... I guess... he can't really be going around pretending to be friends with white supremacists and then pretend to be friend with jews too... someone eventually will figure out his game... but hey... no a politician he says... Imagine if he was...

                          And more and more Jews are jumping ship from the globalist agenda.
                          I consider myself to have a rich imagination, and no even I can imagine what wild set of conspiracies and craziness are included in your understanding of "globalist agenda"...

                          PS - There are a small percentage of blacks that are worthy to exist and become part of the human family, these I will call "Black people." The rest are a plague on humanity.
                          So even the few ones you consider redeemable... lol.. why can't just call them "People"? what is the need to make the distinction that they are "Black people"?

                          PPS - I have only recently come to the conclusion that I don't believe in the freedom or democracy, as I don't have faith that these ideas are capable of dealing with the "big" problems of the world or guiding humanity to a better place. If you have 8 billion "individuals" none of them agree on anything and they all get in each other's way. I'm starting to understand why people like Stalin threw millions of people in the gulags, if only to get the remainder of his countrymen to "fly in formation." At the end of the day, sadly, I feel like it's the only way for governmental bodies to actually get anything done. While I don't feel committed enough to call myself a fascist or communist (or any ist) I do feel confident in saying that the Dark Enlightenment idea has some merit.
                          And I though mass depopulation was a staple of the globalist agenda...

                          Comment


                          • #14


                            Two thoughts.

                            1. I think it's inevitable that whether 100 years from now or 500 years or 1000 years, eventually the whole Earth will have similar-looking population with similar dialects and culture, and I believe that dimorphism between male and female will gradually dissapate to more like a "are you a butch or a femme" rather than "are you a man or a woman."

                            2. Within this environment simultaneously will arise some kinds of socio-cultural feudalism as people hold on with a death-grip to their provincial idiosyncracies. Time has proven again and again that man always needs an enemy, and if one doesn't exist he will invent it.

                            3. Progressives, Liberals, SJW's, Vegans, Atheists, LGBT etc etc constitute one such feudal tribe despite vehement protestations that they represent everyone and vehement assertion that as soon as the world becomes "equal" their job will be done. Their job will never be done, just like Feminism would still exist even if every woman were eligible for a mansion with gold toilets, there is no point at which this feudal tribe will say, "ok we've accomplished our goals, let's shut it down." Because the goal isn't some objective or list of demands, the goal is that people need enemies just like they need a "tribe" to belong to.

                            4. For all intents and purposes we are already there now (see #1.) There are no real inequalities, people insist there are because that's their entire reason to exist as a group, "I'm a liberal, therefor I am against inequality." If you want to keep being Liberal you'll find inequality whether it exists or not. You'll chase a fly just to show that one of the wings is bigger than the other. If that doesn't work you'll find a microaggression. You'll find SOMEthing to give a lecture about, otherwise what would you do with yourself? Get a real job?

                            It's like Reform Judaism. If social justice were achieved, would they shut down the synagogue? Or would they need to find something to reform?

                            The simple fact is that in the 60's and 70's, the progressives got everything they wanted, every program, every reform that they insisted would cure every social problem. "Old America" pretty much collapsed during the 60's and 70's and the progressives have been at the wheel ever since.

                            Liberals would point at Trump, but that's like the Communists pointing at Leon Trotsky.

                            "One last foe. One last enemy to defeat, then we win."

                            During the Russian Revolution, Communists shut down Moscow and demanded reforms.
                            So they got their reforms.
                            Then they wanted the Czar gone.
                            So they murdered the Czar and his entire family.
                            Then the sailors of Kronstat.
                            Then the Cathedral.
                            Then the White Russians.
                            Then the Ukranians.
                            Then Trotsky.
                            Then Stalin came and found a few million extra "enemies of the people."

                            "Bu-but wait....I thought...once we get our guy in, boom we solve the problem. The blue wave goes in, fixes everything, women become equal, blacks become equal, gays become equal, and everyone lives happily ever after."

                            No, that's when you don't date men so you're a homophobe.

                            Simpleman becomes President.
                            Someone else shows up, "Simpleman isn't progressive enough, he's just a shill for the big corporations."

                            If even Bernie Sanders isn't progressive enough for BLM, what hope do the rest of us have?
                            I think I'm a moderate, you say, "You're a nazi!"
                            You think you're progressive, someone else says, "You don't even date men, don't dare call yourself a progressive."

                            It never ends, Cthulu always swims left.

                            Probably I am sinning of idealist here.. but I do see potential on the people on that caravan thing... they can be good and productive members of the society... granted, none of them will be a Nobel Prize... but no everybody need to be... there is a lot of more roles in society to fill and to do...

                            The thing is that people like Trump and his followers do not see any of this potential... they probably see a flock of parasites wanting to leach out from US... or some like that... even more... I think you and your "soft heart" are of this exact opinion.
                            They can apply for immigration.

                            They just don't want to wait their turn.

                            "5000 people want to come in!"

                            5000 people can take an application and bring a #2 pencil.

                            I mean.

                            Is it ok if we get their names first?

                            My father waited 8 years for a Visa.

                            Homie just shows up and wants to throw rocks.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dubs View Post
                              Two thoughts.
                              you listed up to 4.

                              3. Progressives, Liberals, SJW's, Vegans, Atheists, LGBT etc etc constitute one such feudal tribe...
                              To talk about feudalism is to talk about land ownership... and none of the groups you mention are directly involve on that...

                              There are no real inequalities, people insist there are because that's their entire reason to exist as a group, "I'm a liberal, therefor I am against inequality." If you want to keep being Liberal you'll find inequality whether it exists or not.
                              I'm sure i have seeing you around whining that you are discriminated...

                              It's like Reform Judaism. If social justice were achieved, would they shut down the synagogue? Or would they need to find something to reform?
                              They are reforming judaism... the main goal of Reform Judaism is not to archive social justice... it is to adapt the jewish identity to be more compatible with the modern life.

                              They can apply for immigration.

                              They just don't want to wait their turn...
                              I believe every person in the world have a god given talent... yours is to talk about stuff you don't know.

                              This is what the US Citizenship and Immigration Services have to say on the topic:

                              "To obtain asylum through the affirmative asylum process you must be physically present in the United States. You may apply for asylum status regardless of how you arrived in the United States or your current immigration status."
                              https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/r...-united-states

                              So no... it does not work the way you think... it is not that you first obtain the status and then enter.. you first enter and then apply...

                              A simple 2 minutes search into a government official website told me all the true on how the process really works... You are eating shit from the media and spiting it around...

                              I am highly upset about this because it takes me 2 minutes to correct your bad info... but you spit it out every 2 seconds...

                              You are an adult, you need to start to be responsible about your own education.

                              My father waited 8 years for a Visa.
                              There is different ways to work into the naturalization process some ways take longer than others.. write a letter to your congressman if you don't like it.

                              I am not even going to waste my time explaining to you the differences between one way or the other...

                              And your father is a lazy ass... he could have got it done in 5 years.. not my fault he sleep on his papers.

                              Comment

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