Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Pay for a next generation

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Pay for a next generation

    Quite the reverse of China's one child policy or replacement immigration, Hungary seeks to bribe it's women into baby making.
    • Mothers of 4 or more will be exempt for life from income tax
    • Mothers of 3 or more to get £7000 towards a family car.
    • Females to get a low interest lone of £27,000 for getting married before they are 40
    • free IVF
    • 3 years parental leave
    • housing supplements of €10,000 per child
    • subsidized child care
    https://www.bitchute.com/video/IykOS3sqlRA/

    Providing all that for the mother of one's children was once seen as the man's responsibility, but now the state is stepping in.
    I think this may seed a new wave of men's issues in Europe.
    ~~~ PEr aRDUa ad asTrA ~~~
    (through adversity to the stars)

  • #2
    So weird that the right is pulling out this sort of argument...

    And the video does not answer any of the real questions... it is more like a commercial for paradise than any real study of a solution...

    My main question is, of course... where all this money is going to come from?

    Then, we have all this documentation on case studies on how welfare supporting single motherhood actually have degrade the quality of society... So mid-term they are heading on to a generation of feral kids...

    Then i start to think about all the loopholes you can poke on this stuff...

    A lesbian marriage can access some of this benefits, 2x. So if the main motivation is money, would not make more sense if some of this now, professional mothers, couple together just to get more money this way?

    Think about that... a mother of 3 will get 7k free money for "a car"... a lesbian couple will get 7k each mother, for the same 3 kids...

    This is just to illustrate how this system is so poorly though that it is really easy to take advantage of it... and I am pretty sure they will do this kind of thing... but then again... how much money they have in that bag? where the money is coming from?

    Anyway... interesting stuff, we are going to be able to see a country fully committed to have the state as the father and women as a superior class, while men will be serfs to have not other function in society than to produce the money to pay for the whole circus... Lest see how that is going to work for them...

    Also... there seams to be a hard Brexit by the end of this month... so there is not more predictions and stuff... we are going to finally appreciate the real impact of UK deciding that they don't want to be part of Europe anymore...

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by simpleman View Post

      Then i start to think about all the loopholes you can poke on this stuff...
      I had very similar misgivings and decided to come post here where people seem more logical.
      Do they really think that giving birth is all it takes to be a mother?
      In any case the problem isn't lack of population.
      The actual problem that we've all seen coming for decades, is them expecting to using social welfare system as an generous boomer generation civil servant pension fund although it has had no funding by the retiring boomers.
      TBH I think it would solve a lot if they just pay them the same as any other welfare recipient.
      As for imported migrants they are just another dead weight we don't need.
      ~~~ PEr aRDUa ad asTrA ~~~
      (through adversity to the stars)

      Comment


      • #4

        Who cares if lesbians use the program, at least the kids are Hungarian.

        And of course fathers of these children will benefit from having the state support their children.

        Of course I don't expect globalists to like it, they think importing millons of Africans is the same as birthing millions of Europeans.

        Is every single African bad? No, but on the whole this is a very low quality population that cannot sustain civilization.

        Europeans + sorting good africans from bad africans = What I think will be the future of globalism.

        The danger is that "good africans"/good non-europeans act as a potential fifth column who then want to drag the rest of their scummy cousins to Europe.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Angelica View Post
          Do they really think that giving birth is all it takes to be a mother?
          In my opinion, yes...

          At least to be the biological mother... but even to be the nurturing mother, there is not really a lot whole into it... it is not hard stuff... honestly.

          In any case the problem isn't lack of population.
          I agree with you here. I don't see how this is the problem... I think a well planed economy will do well. And population increment or population shrinking is not a solution to a bad planed economy... the solution is to properly plan the economy.

          The actual problem that we've all seen coming for decades, is them expecting to using social welfare system as an generous boomer generation civil servant pension fund although it has had no funding by the retiring boomers.
          That is true, at least in US, the boomers mismanage the economy badly, irresponsible even, and this affected badly their previews generations and their future generations...

          TBH I think it would solve a lot if they just pay them the same as any other welfare recipient.
          I am not sure I follow what this is about...

          As for imported migrants they are just another dead weight we don't need.
          As I said before, the problem is not the migration of people, the problem is how it is done, how it is planned for... and what is the purpose or the social function of it...

          I actually think a place like US would benefit form a mass migration of low skill basic level workers. If Trump wants to follow trough with his plans to bringing manufacturing back into US, then the number of this kind of migrants need to be even higher.

          The idea that someone with a high level of education is going to work in an assemble line is plain stupid... Education was an investment, and the best for society is that such investment yields profits on the field of the education.

          Other possible solution I have seeing toss around, is to reduce the access to higher education, so the low level unskilled workers are then local... that might work, but but now we are talking about the next generation,.. it will take us at least 10 years to have the low level skill factory workers... so there is that... Other option would be to outsource the low level jobs... but then we have people saying that China is stealing our jobs... so... ???

          People need to chose what they want... but they can't have it all...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by dubs View Post
            Who cares if lesbians use the program, at least the kids are Hungarian.
            Assuming the sperm donors are Hungarians... and that is a huge assuming... you usually are better than this... you know better...

            And of course fathers of these children will benefit from having the state support their children.
            And the men that are not the fathers will be feeding someone else kid.. and we know this is fundamentally a NO... on our basic, animistic level, we are wired to no do this... So you can't realistically think the government is goign to milk out this resources from the guys that are making the money and don't want to pay for other people kids... they will find the way to let this happens to them. We have see it play before in other places, and I have not reason to think it will play any different here...

            Of course I don't expect globalists to like it, they think importing millons of Africans is the same as birthing millions of Europeans.
            Fundamentally, it is the same. Yes. for all economical purposes it makes not difference...

            You think it makes a difference if farmers are African or Europeans? you think it makes difference if taxpayers are Africans or Europeans???

            If an African give you 1 dollar and an European give you a dollar... you think the dollar the European gave you is better, or more valuable than the collar the African gave you???

            Is every single African bad? No, but on the whole this is a very low quality population that cannot sustain civilization.
            LOL

            You can't sustain civilization... Just saying...

            Europeans + sorting good africans from bad africans = What I think will be the future of globalism.
            Ah there is not going to be any form of sorting of good Europeans form bad Europeans??? they are all good?

            The danger is that "good africans"/good non-europeans act as a potential fifth column who then want to drag the rest of their scummy cousins to Europe.
            And reality shows the whole opposite of what you claim here...

            It is not that hard to find examples of the opposite of what you just said... There is blacks working their way out form Compton all the time, and none of them invite the gangstas to their new house... if they move out from them, they will be very reluctant to invite them over... Think about that.

            Stuff is not that simple as you pretend it to be... so for instance... after WWII Germany imported a bunch of Turks to help with the rebuilding of the country... Today we have the 3th generation from those Turks... opposing middle eastern migration... because... basically it hurts their bottom line...

            I don't know if accordingly to you, this Turks are good or bad... I imagine bad... because they still have not integrated to Germany, as integration is usually understood.. culture.

            So bad immigrants, don't want more immigrants... how you explain this? how you claim they want to bring in more???

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by simpleman View Post
              but even to be the nurturing mother, there is not really a lot whole into it... it is not hard stuff... honestly.
              I used to think that way too, until I had to look after my dying mother.

              Babies might be easier or harder, but the general consensus is that human children are alot of work.

              Originally posted by simpleman View Post
              And population increment or population shrinking is not a solution to a bad planed economy... the solution is to properly plan the economy.
              With regard to the US southern border, you were saying in another that "more people = better economy" basically.

              But when it comes to Hungary populating itself you say, "increasing population is not the solution."

              Seems that your main criteria/agenda is to reduce the population of white people and let non-whites into Europe.

              Originally posted by simpleman View Post
              That is true, at least in US, the boomers mismanage the economy badly
              Things could be better, but the US is the world's second biggest economy (#1 being China with something like 5x the population) so they must have done something right.

              Originally posted by simpleman View Post
              As I said before, the problem is not the migration of people, the problem is how it is done, how it is planned for... and what is the purpose or the social function of it...
              I think the purpose according to you is to get rid of white people and replace them.

              Originally posted by simpleman View Post
              I actually think a place like US would benefit form a mass migration of low skill basic level workers.
              Automation is going to kill alot of jobs soon, self driving cars, robots, etc etc.

              The last thing we need is "low skilled people."

              The only thing low skilled people are good for is as consumers.

              Originally posted by simpleman View Post
              Assuming the sperm donors are Hungarians... and that is a huge assuming... you usually are better than this... you know better...
              Assuming there is no mass-migration, citizens can comfortably be assumed to be Hungarian nationals.

              Originally posted by simpleman View Post
              And the men that are not the fathers will be feeding someone else kid..
              Every country already does this thru education, healthcare, welfare, etc etc.

              I consider that the Hungarian ethnic group probably still has an intact social contract, unlike western europe.

              Originally posted by simpleman View Post
              Fundamentally, it is the same. Yes. for all economical purposes it makes not difference...

              You think it makes a difference if farmers are African or Europeans? you think it makes difference if taxpayers are Africans or Europeans???

              If an African give you 1 dollar and an European give you a dollar... you think the dollar the European gave you is better, or more valuable than the collar the African gave you???
              Look it's already well-established that you're a cuck, we've hashed this out before.

              If there's no difference between a European and an African, then there wouldn't be mass migration and mass starvation, Africa wouldn't be a hellhole.

              There is no African society that have advanced past the stone age by itself, even with massive influx of resources and knowledge, look at Chicago, look at Detroit, look at New York, look at Los Angeles, all of them violent hellholes on Earth.

              You think the vice lords pay taxes?

              Listen, do everybody a favor.

              Prove your concept first. Open up Israeli borders and start taking millions of refugees.

              And then come back to me and tell me "everything is fine, there is no difference between a jewish dollar and a sub-saharan african dollar."

              But you can't even do that with people who look JUST LIKE YOU who are trying to KILL YOU.

              Originally posted by simpleman View Post
              LOL

              You can't sustain civilization... Just saying...
              What is this, feels before reals?

              Personalizing the argument to me does not help your case.

              I might be a genius or I might be a moron like you, you don't know.

              Originally posted by simpleman View Post
              Ah there is not going to be any form of sorting of good Europeans form bad Europeans??? they are all good?
              Europeans are native to Europe, where are the bad ones going to go, Zimbabwe?

              Originally posted by simpleman View Post
              There is blacks working their way out form Compton all the time, and none of them invite the gangstas to their new house... if they move out from them, they will be very reluctant to invite them over... Think about that.
              Yes, some black people manage to escape from their own kind and never want to go back or invite them in.

              This helps my argument, not yours.

              Originally posted by simpleman View Post
              after WWII Germany imported a bunch of Turks to help with the rebuilding of the country... Today we have the 3th generation from those Turks... opposing middle eastern migration... because... basically it hurts their bottom line...
              No shit sherlock.

              Why do you think I, the son of immigrants, is wary of immigration?

              I've BEEN to the old country, I KNOW what that part of the world is like, you think I want to let those assholes in??

              Yeah I get it, it's hypocritical, it's circular logic, "the ambivalence of being an immigrant kid" remember? I wrestle with this myself.

              This is not about being ethically consistent it's about survival.

              Me and mine didn't just barely escape with our lives just to come to America for one generation and have to run for our lives again.

              Then you just end up running from country to country, with your former neighbors chasing you.


              PS - Welcome back. Did you bring me some shakshouka at least?

              Last edited by dubs; 03-10-2019, 01:06 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dubs View Post

                With regard to the US southern border, you were saying in another that "more people = better economy" basically.

                But when it comes to Hungary populating itself you say, "increasing population is not the solution."

                Seems that your main criteria/agenda is to reduce the population of white people and let non-whites into Europe.
                Please go back to where I said such thing and review it...

                The general consensus is that more people produce more... and if bigger GDP is a goal, then increments of population can appear like a fast solution.

                In my personal opinion, I don't think a country should strike for more production, but for more happiness... Look at Japan, they are refusing to take immigrants at the cost of a drop on production... they are OK with it, and are willing to take the economical drop... More or less... there is some government secretary that is trying to encourage more babies... but... they don't have the money to pay all the women to become professional mothers, so they are trying to appeal at different things.... but no money.

                The situation with the south of US, is a bit different... the Illegals are already inside... by the number of 11 or so millions, and they have being in place for a long time, and they have already integrated into the economy.... kicking them out all of the sudden, will cause a devastating impact on the economy of the zone. This is why i say... if you want to kick them out, that is OK, but do it in a planned and orderly way so the economy can adapt to the process and... go back to my old messages...

                Importing 11 millions with not planing is as damaging to the economy as exporting 11 million with not planing.

                Things could be better, but the US is the world's second biggest economy (#1 being China with something like 5x the population) so they must have done something right.
                China build full ghost towns for the only purpose of making their GDP look larger than what it really is... I am goign to argue, their current economy is in a bubble that can't be sustain in for long time... it will burts it will crash.

                I think the purpose according to you is to get rid of white people and replace them.
                Why?

                Automation is going to kill alot of jobs soon, self driving cars, robots, etc etc.

                The last thing we need is "low skilled people."

                The only thing low skilled people are good for is as consumers.
                Sure automation is taking a lot of jobs... but as time have gone by... I am very skeptical that it will ever be on the scale of what they (the people running this tech companies) are claiming it is going to be...

                At this moment a self driving car sounds a much as viable as a flying car... There have being too many startups failures out there for me to believe the futuristic promises of this visionaries tycoons...

                In the next 10 or so Elon Musk will consolidate himself as the biggest visionary of our time... or as the biggest con man of our time... depending if he can deliver what he promise... But as time goes by and his promises are getting wilder and wilder while his deliveries are highly questionable successes... I see him more as an Elizabeth Holmes than as a Nicholas Tesla....

                Low skilled work have proven to work... it is what we used to build civilization, and it is what we still use to maintain it... Robots is a concept that have being marginally proven... so... will all those magic cars and machines be functional to the level we need them to be... on time?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by simpleman View Post

                  I am not sure I follow what this is about...
                  it was regarding how much we pay retired boomers who failed to fund their own retirement fund.
                  I'm talking about civil servants promising themselves inflation proofed generous non contributory pensions at the expense of future generation tax payers... so basically the money they are getting is coming directly from the same source that is meant to be providing social welfare... which I believe is substantially less the kind of pensions are demanding?
                  ~~~ PEr aRDUa ad asTrA ~~~
                  (through adversity to the stars)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dubs View Post
                    Assuming there is no mass-migration, citizens can comfortably be assumed to be Hungarian nationals.
                    This is my prediction:

                    Guys are going to get mad at this BS gynocentric laws, they will pretty much go MGTOW, while women in a rush to grab the cash while still there will rush vacations to anywhere they can get 2 spoons of sperm.

                    Every country already does this thru education, healthcare, welfare, etc etc.
                    I see the point... some money invested on improving the quality of society can be said to be money well invested... however... there is a line where you are no longer investing some money, but pretty much supporting someone's kid... and that is a line most are not willing to cross.

                    I am fine if they use my money to teach a kid to read and write, I am not cool if they use my money to buy the diapers for some kid because the mom is rolling in cash as more kids she cna have... for what I am concern disposable diapers are a luxury, no a necessity, she can get a piece of clothes and wash, so she can keep reusing it and get her hands out of my pocket...

                    I am not that much stupid, I can see the difference between one thing and the other.

                    I consider that the Hungarian ethnic group probably still has an intact social contract, unlike western europe.
                    I don't really know... for the video in the OP it looks like it is running pretty thin already, this laws maybe save their society or finish it for good... as this laws count with loads of money that they have not figure out yet... you can guess what is my prediction here.

                    Look it's already well-established that you're a cuck, we've hashed this out before.

                    If there's no difference between a European and an African, then there wouldn't be mass migration and mass starvation, Africa wouldn't be a hellhole.
                    This is why education is so important.. there is parts of Africa that are well, prosper and wealthy... your lack of education is not an argument... if you are goign to talk about this, the least you could do is educate yourself on the topic, so you don't look like an idiot.

                    There is no African society that have advanced past the stone age by itself, even with massive influx of resources and knowledge, look at Chicago, look at Detroit, look at New York, look at Los Angeles, all of them violent hellholes on Earth.
                    Then again... stupid talking... you are here ignoring thousands of years of history and more...

                    You think the vice lords pay taxes?

                    Listen, do everybody a favor.

                    Prove your concept first. Open up Israeli borders and start taking millions of refugees.
                    Sure... I am just going to pick up my phone and fire up that Israel app, and click the open borders bottom... why don't you fuck yourself?

                    But you can't even do that with people who look JUST LIKE YOU who are trying to KILL YOU.
                    LOL... well i guess the Germans wanted to kill me at some point on time, so yeah... you are right about this...

                    I might be a genius or I might be a moron like you, you don't know.
                    Genius in what?

                    Maybe you like to keep your business private so never talk on how you pay for your food... or maybe you don't have any business? do you pay your own bills? are you proud of what you do for a living?

                    Yes, some black people manage to escape from their own kind and never want to go back or invite them in.

                    This helps my argument, not yours.
                    It actually helps my argument... but i will expand more on this on your next point...

                    You see... you talk about cities on US like Chicago and the so... and the problem with this examples you gave is that they are not real migrants... they are descendants of slaves. This is people that was drag by force into a foreign land, where they where forced to work while they lose their whole identity and culture, and this circumstances are still affecting their descendants... You just ignore this whole part of their identity, and their lives and decide to point them at me as the representation of what blacks can archive in life... there is something fundamentally, wrong, cruel and ignorant about your argument...

                    Why do you think I, the son of immigrants, is wary of immigration?
                    Because you are a piece of shit... Your parents try to run away from people like you... imagine what they would have think when they see you...

                    I've BEEN to the old country, I KNOW what that part of the world is like, you think I want to let those assholes in??

                    Yeah I get it, it's hypocritical, it's circular logic, "the ambivalence of being an immigrant kid" remember? I wrestle with this myself.
                    Generally people try to minimize competition... at some level you think that if more like you come in, then you will have to compete against them fro what you have... it will make it harder on you. THat is what I have notice in most of the cases...

                    A single child don't want the parents to have another kid, because he will have to share toys, parents attention, the room.. what no... your are mentally and emotionally like such child.

                    This is not about being ethically consistent it's about survival.
                    Long time ago I gave up on the idea that you was to be ethically consistent... but read again how you just describe the inner workings of your mind... would that sounds like someone that builds civilization? or would that sounds like someone that have failed to archive the higher ideals of the west?

                    PS - Welcome back. Did you bring me some shakshouka at least?
                    I see you manage to entertain yourself in a proper way... so that assures me that I can leave for long if I feel so, and be sure that you will not suffer the boredom of being with yourself... I feel less guilty abut it now...

                    It is just weird how good I am at this MGTOW stuff... how good I am at giving up, walking out and, dropping off... what I have leave behind and never look back... I don't attach anymore.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Angelica View Post

                      it was regarding how much we pay retired boomers who failed to fund their own retirement fund.
                      I'm talking about civil servants promising themselves inflation proofed generous non contributory pensions at the expense of future generation tax payers... so basically the money they are getting is coming directly from the same source that is meant to be providing social welfare... which I believe is substantially less the kind of pensions are demanding?
                      Ah I see... I agree with the sentiment.

                      I don't see solution to this...

                      I made some estrange observations on the Women's Day... there where some women begging at different street lights... that is an unusual sighting and there was 2 on the same day... then a female coworker asking me to help her lift up heavy stuff, I exposed it up for what it is, and strangely enough other coworker (female) agree with me... she can lift up her stuff, why she feel entitle to ask men to do this for her?

                      But I see this like cracks on the fabric of the old society... each time it gets more clear that things have change... and there is not coming back. This is what we are now.

                      We can either contribute to the system and pay for the retirement of those boomers, or we can either avoid the deal, and start to see more elder homeless asking for money on streets lights... The problem is that most of the people in my generation are feed up with all the BS.. so there is not much people contributing, anyway... the boomers will see their checks getting smaller as the system dries out... then they will have not plans on who they will crush for the cash... and that is it... they should not have planned on living out of our money... because we don't have any.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                        Please go back to where I said such thing and review it...

                        The general consensus is that more people produce more...
                        Can't be bothered to find the quote but that's the general gist.

                        More people produce more, but in a capitalist system all of that production goes to the top %1, and the public eats the losses, for example single mothers or people on welfare, while Amazon and Walmart and Target do booming business.

                        Secondly due to the nature of our de-industrialized economy, most of the "work" in America is busywork, HR, paper pushing, things that don't produce any real value. If a bunch of stockbrokers trade stocks and make millions, it doesn't actually produce anything.

                        Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                        In my personal opinion, I don't think a country should strike for more production, but for more happiness
                        You're not wrong but "happiness" is an ephemoral concept to begin with, I mean if you ask the founding fathers they will say "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." But if you ask someone who lives in a crackhouse in the hood, happiness might be getting enough heat in the building in winter. Materialism, Spiritualism, Social Justice, etc etc, all of these provide (and detract) happiness from various groups for which there is not much consensus.

                        Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                        The situation with the south of US, is a bit different... the Illegals are already inside... by the number of 11 or so millions, and they have being in place for a long time, and they have already integrated into the economy.... kicking them out all of the sudden, will cause a devastating impact on the economy of the zone. This is why i say... if you want to kick them out, that is OK, but do it in a planned and orderly way so the economy can adapt to the process and... go back to my old messages...
                        As far as I am concerned there is no "economic" issue with booting out every single illegal immigrant. People will migrate from other states to take advantage of the sudden loss of labor. Things might have to cost more, because now you have to actually pay a decent wage rather than exploiting illegal immigrant labor.

                        The issue to me is primarily humanitarian, moral/ethical, "is this the right thing to do?" sort of question and I cannot see a way around some kind of amnesty/legalization program (and I don't begrudge Mexican-Americans, most of them are fine people and hard workers that have become part of the American social fabric) but the first step in that is actually securing the border.

                        Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                        China build full ghost towns for the only purpose of making their GDP look larger than what it really is
                        1. I don't see how it boosts their GDP, what you mean from the money just spent on construction?
                        2. Who are they trying to impress?
                        3. From what little I know, the Chinese are smart as fuck, work like dogs, and live life on hardcore mode, they're going to be successful on the world stage no matter how you slice it.

                        Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                        Sure automation is taking a lot of jobs... but as time have gone by... I am very skeptical that it will ever be on the scale of what they (the people running this tech companies) are claiming it is going to be...

                        At this moment a self driving car sounds a much as viable as a flying car... There have being too many startups failures out there for me to believe the futuristic promises of this visionaries tycoons...

                        In the next 10 or so Elon Musk will consolidate himself as the biggest visionary of our time... or as the biggest con man of our time... depending if he can deliver what he promise... But as time goes by and his promises are getting wilder and wilder while his deliveries are highly questionable successes... I see him more as an Elizabeth Holmes than as a Nicholas Tesla....

                        Low skilled work have proven to work... it is what we used to build civilization, and it is what we still use to maintain it... Robots is a concept that have being marginally proven... so... will all those magic cars and machines be functional to the level we need them to be... on time?
                        Well if it doesn't happen in 5 years, it'll happen in 10 years, it'll happen in 20 years. It'll happen in 50 years.

                        Then what?

                        US car companies already manufacture cars with stuff in them to show up on the sensors, so they are already preparing.

                        Low skilled work is proven to work but it cannot compete with free, the whole Uber model is based on self-driving cars, just replace the poor fuckers who are in the driver seat.

                        Personally I think self-driving cars will start rolling out within the next 5 years.

                        Large swathes of the economy are becoming redundant, we have too many "low-skilled" people on this earth, too many mouths to feed who can't be useful to the modern economy.

                        We are gonna need UBI/Socialism/Other just to feed and house people.

                        That's not my wish, I'm just saying that seems inevitable, either that or mass starvation/rioting.

                        Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                        Guys are going to get mad at this BS gynocentric laws
                        Of course but I don't know much about Hungary or how much of a social contract they have intact, I mean if they are really motivated to keep Hungary Hungarian, then having more Hungarian babies seems pretty intuitive, and I'm sure they will monitor these programs for abuse and cut them if necessary.

                        That being said, there are alot of angry men in the West, and endless social welfare for women/single mothers, so it's really no different, US/UK/Israel pays all kinds of social welfare to single mothers, probably much much more than just 10k per child or whatever. Israel subsidizes settlers with huge families.

                        Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                        I see the point... some money invested on improving the quality of society can be said to be money well invested... however... there is a line where you are no longer investing some money, but pretty much supporting someone's kid... and that is a line most are not willing to cross.

                        I am fine if they use my money to teach a kid to read and write, I am not cool if they use my money to buy the diapers for some kid because the mom is rolling in cash as more kids she cna have... for what I am concern disposable diapers are a luxury, no a necessity, she can get a piece of clothes and wash, so she can keep reusing it and get her hands out of my pocket...
                        Like I said we're already paying/funding that in the US.

                        There's basically no welfare in the US for single men, all of it is for women with children.

                        Generally speaking, single men subsidize women and families, business susidize women giving them jobs they don't necessarily qualify for, promotions they don't necessarily qualify for, all sorts of programs and training, men and women pay the same price for health insurance even tho women use it more, men and women pay the same taxes even tho women collect Social Security about 10 years longer (and in the UK, women retire earlier than men.)

                        Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                        This is why education is so important.. there is parts of Africa that are well, prosper and wealthy... your lack of education is not an argument... if you are goign to talk about this, the least you could do is educate yourself on the topic, so you don't look like an idiot.
                        There's enough resources in Africa to be fabulously wealthy, but it's not managed well, overpopulation, corruption, civil wars, strife, political instability, etc etc.

                        This I think is because Africans are having to fit into a Western/Eurocentric socio-economic model which is not natively or intuitively theirs, so they're being exploited for their labor and natural resources in a global market.

                        We can say, "Well maybe we should stop exploiting them" but that would require changing the Western/Eurocentric socio-economic model to the detriment of Western citizens and/or global trade.

                        The capitalist system presumes that everyone will make good decisions up and down the line, it presumes that politicians will do their job and not just hire their relatives and pocket the money, in other words capitalism presumes a Western mentality and social environment with Western values and mores. When one tribe pockets the money and uses it to buy weapons to fuck the other tribe, you get Africa, you get Somalia, you get Rwanda, you get Nigeria, etc etc.

                        And then taking these people and shoe-horning them into Europe hahahaha, it will end in tears, I don't know whose tears (probably yours and mine.)

                        You remember when Michael Jackson and all those people made that song, "We are the World?"

                        It was to help Ethiopia that was supposedly going thru a famine, except if you look thru the markets and shops in Ethiopia there was plenty of food, but just most people didn't have enough money to buy it, and the local shopkeeper didn't give a flying fuck about the starving people in the next village, farmers would rather burn their crops than just giving it away.

                        These are the people you think would fit in so well in London, "a dollar is a dollar bro."

                        Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                        Then again... stupid talking... you are here ignoring thousands of years of history and more...
                        Hahaha you're such a cuck I bet you actually believe that.

                        Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                        Sure... I am just going to pick up my phone and fire up that Israel app, and click the open borders bottom... why don't you fuck yourself?
                        Or perhaps, apply the same standards to the West as you apply to Israel.

                        I think it was only two days ago Netanyahu made a statement that "Israel is not a state for all of its people."

                        That is surprisingly frank way of saying "Israel is for the Jews."

                        So you think what, Jews are the only people who want to stay a people? You think Hungarians don't want to stay Hungarian or Englishmen don't want to stay Englishmen?

                        Put it this way, if I had immigrated to Israel, I would not say, "Great, we're in. Now let's vote for all the palestinians and open the borders to everybody, this shouldn't be a country just for the jews anymore."

                        Rather I will say, "This tribe was nice enough to let us in, we're gonna do all we can to protect it."

                        Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                        Genius in what?

                        Maybe you like to keep your business private so never talk on how you pay for your food... or maybe you don't have any business? do you pay your own bills? are you proud of what you do for a living?
                        I could be the tooth fairy for all it matters.

                        The point is you try to personalize our debate to make emotional arguments....

                        Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                        Because you are a piece of shit... Your parents try to run away from people like you... imagine what they would have think when they see you...
                        ....like this one.

                        Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                        You see... you talk about cities on US like Chicago and the so... and the problem with this examples you gave is that they are not real migrants... they are descendants of slaves. This is people that was drag by force into a foreign land, where they where forced to work while they lose their whole identity and culture, and this circumstances are still affecting their descendants... You just ignore this whole part of their identity, and their lives and decide to point them at me as the representation of what blacks can archive in life... there is something fundamentally, wrong, cruel and ignorant about your argument...
                        Don't immigrants likewise lose their identity and culture in favor of their new home? Isn't that the whole point of immigration?

                        Slavery was 400 years ago, the excuses are starting to sound thin and hollow.

                        They were sold by their own people, and slavery is still practiced in some parts of Africa.

                        Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                        Generally people try to minimize competition... at some level you think that if more like you come in, then you will have to compete against them fro what you have... it will make it harder on you. THat is what I have notice in most of the cases...

                        A single child don't want the parents to have another kid, because he will have to share toys, parents attention, the room.. what no... your are mentally and emotionally like such child.
                        Dear stoopid

                        If you are having a fair fight, that is YOUR failure to plan.

                        Being able to compete is important, but strategic depth is also part of that competition.

                        Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                        Long time ago I gave up on the idea that you was to be ethically consistent... but read again how you just describe the inner workings of your mind... would that sounds like someone that builds civilization? or would that sounds like someone that have failed to archive the higher ideals of the west?
                        The inner workings of my mind is that a person should be as kind as they can afford to be, while being as ruthless as they have to be.

                        Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                        I see you manage to entertain yourself in a proper way... so that assures me that I can leave for long if I feel so, and be sure that you will not suffer the boredom of being with yourself... I feel less guilty abut it now...

                        It is just weird how good I am at this MGTOW stuff... how good I am at giving up, walking out and, dropping off... what I have leave behind and never look back... I don't attach anymore.
                        I'm not sure what you just said but I'm glad you're happy about it.
                        Last edited by dubs; 03-12-2019, 09:23 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dubs View Post

                          Can't be bothered to find the quote but that's the general gist.
                          Well... then I guess you are going to tell me what I said... LOL...


                          More people produce more, but in a capitalist system all of that production goes to the top %1, and the public eats the losses, for example single mothers or people on welfare, while Amazon and Walmart and Target do booming business.
                          I thin in US most of the money ends in the middle class...

                          And there is nothing wrong with Amazon and Walmart, they are great companies that serve people in fantastic ways, that is why so many people use their services.

                          Secondly due to the nature of our de-industrialized economy, most of the "work" in America is busywork, HR, paper pushing, things that don't produce any real value. If a bunch of stockbrokers trade stocks and make millions, it doesn't actually produce anything.
                          In theory, they did a service for someone...

                          You're not wrong but "happiness" is an ephemoral concept to begin with, I mean if you ask the founding fathers they will say "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." But if you ask someone who lives in a crackhouse in the hood, happiness might be getting enough heat in the building in winter. Materialism, Spiritualism, Social Justice, etc etc, all of these provide (and detract) happiness from various groups for which there is not much consensus.
                          I agree, happiness is not a consistent, standardized metric...

                          As far as I am concerned there is no "economic" issue with booting out every single illegal immigrant. People will migrate from other states to take advantage of the sudden loss of labor. Things might have to cost more, because now you have to actually pay a decent wage rather than exploiting illegal immigrant labor.
                          You think reducing the population by 11 millions does not impact the economy???

                          Lest see...

                          I am going to imagine that each one of those people eat 1 egg every day, this is 11 millions eggs a day, this is a bit more than 4 billion eggs a year... the national average for an egg is about $1.5 each...

                          Now well.. they don't just have an egg... they usually have it with come bread, maybe a cup of coffee... and that is the breakfast... 11 million illegals represent around 10 billion dollars a year in breakfasts...

                          Then they get in their trucks and drive... lest say... an average of 20 miles per day, and their cars yield an average of 20 miles per gallon... so 1 gallon of gas per day... for the 11 million of them... around $3 a gallon...

                          I am going to make a joke here... you cramp 10 of them per house... this is 1.1 million houses that they sure rent... because the percentage of ilegals that own property is honestly minimal... so 1.1 rented properties... a rental house is araund... 1000... or 1 billion a month.

                          Now imagine that in a short periot of time all this people move away...

                          So 1.1 million empty houses hit the market, 4 billion eggs get to sit on the supermarket because this people is not there to buy them... and so on... it adds up really fast.. we are talking of an economical fall on the range of the hundreds of billions.

                          You basically have 11 billion people that produce and spend... and the economical fall will hit in those 2 areas...

                          I know some people think the illegals don't work, and they basically leach the welfare and life for free, off the taxes of the Americans... but... honestly... I think we know that is not the case...

                          If you tell me you want to kick out 11 million economical parasites, I will say, great, we don't need them... but... that is not what we are kicking out... are we?

                          The issue to me is primarily humanitarian, moral/ethical, "is this the right thing to do?" sort of question and I cannot see a way around some kind of amnesty/legalization program (and I don't begrudge Mexican-Americans, most of them are fine people and hard workers that have become part of the American social fabric) but the first step in that is actually securing the border.
                          Moral my ass... you are one of the most immoral people I have ever meet...

                          You are talking about the difference between legal or illegal... as far as I am concern this difference is paperwork... it is a stamp in a card... the guy that have the job to stamp that card is contributing less to our society, than less say... the stock brokers at wall street...

                          1. I don't see how it boosts their GDP, what you mean from the money just spent on construction?
                          2. Who are they trying to impress?
                          3. From what little I know, the Chinese are smart as fuck, work like dogs, and live life on hardcore mode, they're going to be successful on the world stage no matter how you slice it.
                          1. Increasing the growth/expenditure, increases the GDP... no all expenditures count, but concrete does count.

                          "Market goods which are produced are purchased by someone. In the case where a good is produced and unsold, the standard accounting convention is that the producer has bought the good from themselves. Therefore, measuring the total expenditure used to buy things is a way of measuring production. This is known as the expenditure method of calculating GDP."
                          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_...iture_approach

                          2. They are trying to impress themselves... they are trying to tell the world that they are bigger and better than anybody else. This is becasue we measure civilization on cubit feet of concrete, for example Africa is a shit-hole of dirt and clay... while US is a first world country of endless concrete highways...

                          "from 2011 to 2013, 6.6 billion tons of concrete were used in China -- that’s about 2 billion tons more than were used in the United States over the entire 20th century."
                          https://priceonomics.com/surveying-t...ties-of-china/

                          3. If you say so...

                          US car companies already manufacture cars with stuff in them to show up on the sensors, so they are already preparing.

                          Low skilled work is proven to work but it cannot compete with free, the whole Uber model is based on self-driving cars, just replace the poor fuckers who are in the driver seat.

                          Personally I think self-driving cars will start rolling out within the next 5 years.
                          And we are going to go on winter vacations to that 5 stars hotel on Mars... I am a bit skeptical about this...

                          Take Tesla as an example.

                          The guy built that factory with mechanic arms only, so the machines make the machines no human needed, he fired 3000 people of his factory base... then the stupid machine is not working.. so Tesla have to build a tent on the parking lot, hire a bunch of humans (but this ones don't know how to build cars) and so Model 3 is coming out of a tent on the parking lot while the engineers are trying to figure out how to make the mechanic arms to work... but apparently it is not that simple.. when you have hundreds of mechanic arms rotating and spinning around, synchronizing the movements is tricky, and a second off per repetition will eventually offset the arms to the point where they collide with each other and literally tear themselves off in pieces... o so I hear...

                          All this shit-show while in the last 3 years more than 80 top executives of the company have resigned...



                          And if this is not enough... the cars coming out of this tent are quality sub-part... as there is no properly trained employees, on a stressful fast paces production line working literally in a tent in a parking lot...

                          Then there is that 100k cars recall because the computer malfunction and resulted in a fatal accident... who would imagine that such a smart car was going to be so dumb on the road? but hey, the accident is there, if you want to see how smart this cars are...

                          I also can add up that the so call green credentials turned out to be BS... because apparently an electric car is as green as the production of that electricity is... so some electricity is not as green as other... who knew...

                          Oh... and the batteries technology still not working... the stupid thing don't work if it too cold, the stupid thing don't work if it is too hot... the best batteries are made from a material (cobalt) that is extracted using slaves in The Congo (CNN call them "blood batteries")... so ethical problems there, I don't care about this... but the progressive liberals that are the costumer base of Tesla, apparently care a lot about this... the superchargers centers take 1 hour to charge a car... so if you are 3th in line that is 3 hours of you waiting to charge your car (imagine if it goes mainstream and you are the 5000 in line)... The train of batteries is under the car, so to replace a damage battery you have to disassemble the car... the labor cost is $12K (to replace a battery)... and I can keep going on... This is just to point out some of the problems with this technology... Elon Musk have call this a "production hell".

                          Take a clue what this guy say at minute 4:14 "But there are times when you can overdue it and have too much automation"... No shit!!!



                          So I am not that much optimistic on your prediction that in 5 years all the ubers are going to drive themselves... I am aware there is other companies working on this kind of technology... but they are no there yet... I think I have a clear picture of where each one of them is at this moment... so... when are we having this magic cars you are talking about? You sure it is going to be in 5 years?

                          Large swathes of the economy are becoming redundant, we have too many "low-skilled" people on this earth, too many mouths to feed who can't be useful to the modern economy.

                          We are gonna need UBI/Socialism/Other just to feed and house people.

                          That's not my wish, I'm just saying that seems inevitable, either that or mass starvation/rioting.
                          This is definitely a real possibility for our future.

                          Of course but I don't know much about Hungary or how much of a social contract they have intact, I mean if they are really motivated to keep Hungary Hungarian, then having more Hungarian babies seems pretty intuitive, and I'm sure they will monitor these programs for abuse and cut them if necessary.
                          I don't know much about Hungary neither... I guess we will have to give them few years and see how it worked for them.

                          That being said, there are alot of angry men in the West, and endless social welfare for women/single mothers, so it's really no different, US/UK/Israel pays all kinds of social welfare to single mothers, probably much much more than just 10k per child or whatever. Israel subsidizes settlers with huge families.
                          Well... that settlers deal is a bit... raw... see? the trick is that if you move to a poor quality land where there is an ongoing war of people trying to kill you.. the government will give you a paper that says a parcel of that land is yours... still, people will happily take it if they can say they have a land of their own, as the song says.

                          There's enough resources in Africa to be fabulously wealthy, but it's not managed well, overpopulation, corruption, civil wars, strife, political instability, etc etc.
                          There is parts of Africa that are really bad, and parts of it that are really good... Imagine if Africans though all US was like Detroit... they will be collecting food to help you...

                          The capitalist system presumes that everyone will make good decisions up and down the line, it presumes that politicians will do their job and not just hire their relatives and pocket the money, in other words capitalism presumes a Western mentality and social environment with Western values and mores. When one tribe pockets the money and uses it to buy weapons to fuck the other tribe, you get Africa, you get Somalia, you get Rwanda, you get Nigeria, etc etc.
                          Capitalism is an economical system, no a moral school... it does not presume that people will do good... and it does not care for such things...

                          And then taking these people and shoe-horning them into Europe hahahaha, it will end in tears, I don't know whose tears (probably yours and mine.)
                          That depends how you look at it... yes they are ambitious and hungry and aggressive... and all those are great traits for a business partner... needless to say it... I don't believe in feminism BS.

                          You remember when Michael Jackson and all those people made that song, "We are the World?"

                          It was to help Ethiopia that was supposedly going thru a famine, except if you look thru the markets and shops in Ethiopia there was plenty of food, but just most people didn't have enough money to buy it, and the local shopkeeper didn't give a flying fuck about the starving people in the next village, farmers would rather burn their crops than just giving it away.
                          And farmers in that country when bankrupt because they can't sell food to people that gets free food form US and Europe... so after everything was said and done, they ended up without their farming industry...

                          They are very careful about taking free stuff now...

                          These are the people you think would fit in so well in London, "a dollar is a dollar bro."
                          So you are going to tell me that there is not sharks in London?

                          Ahh, a country of angles that is exactly what England means... the land of angels... Imagine the poor of them if 1 or 2 sharks make it inside paradise... LOL... you are so silly it is amusing...

                          Or perhaps, apply the same standards to the West as you apply to Israel.
                          I think I do... LOL.

                          Don't immigrants likewise lose their identity and culture in favor of their new home? Isn't that the whole point of immigration?
                          No necessarily... and no.

                          Slavery was 400 years ago, the excuses are starting to sound thin and hollow.
                          The last slave sold in US under the Atlantic Slave Trade die in a world after WWI... at the time he was a slave, there was electricity, cinema, and planes...

                          His name was Cudjo Lewis, He was born in 1840 in Benin, Around 1860 he was capture as prisoner and ship to US with other slaves. He died in 1935.

                          Take your "400 years ago" and try to stick them in this timeline... if you can't then stick it up back in your butt where you got that "400" number from...

                          They were sold by their own people, and slavery is still practiced in some parts of Africa.
                          There is an estimate of over 400000 slaves in US today.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            there was a time we were all occupied with feeding ourselves, now one man can feed thousands.

                            it didn't leave thousands without work, in fact it left thousands free to do work of greater value.

                            increased technology has always brought an increase in opportunity.

                            id argue an increase in socialism, is what increases the unproductive class, not technology.

                            as for immigration

                            there is a limit to the number of uneducated/low value/ unproductive ppl, a socialist or even a capitalist country can afford.


                            as for futurist predictions, in the 70s by 2000 we were supposed to live in a socialist high tech utopia where our biggest problem was going to be what to do with all our leisure time, that had run out of oil, if an ice age didn't get us first.........instead we are working harder for less, have an oil glut, and global warming.

                            from what I can gather a delivery person could once afford a house and a family with a stay at home wife quite easily, but that would be a pre socialist, pre academic elitist social engineering time......it would seem our good hearts and trust in others is what has cost us what we valued most.
                            Last edited by menrppl2; 03-14-2019, 06:53 PM.
                            A man can gain no more respect than by, laying down his life for a woman. And a woman, no more than by, beating down a man. For a man to ask, what is fair and good and true and just, is to offend.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by menrppl2 View Post
                              there was a time we were all occupied with feeding ourselves, now one man can feed thousands.

                              it didn't leave thousands without work, in fact it left thousands free to do work of greater value.

                              increased technology has always brought an increase in opportunity.

                              id argue an increase in socialism, is what increases the unproductive class, not technology.
                              Well... it looks like the problem here is what people do on their free time.. either "work of greater value" or becoming part of the "unproductive class".

                              as for immigration

                              there is a limit to the number of uneducated/low value/ unproductive ppl, a socialist or even a capitalist country can afford.
                              I don't agree with the part where you assume that uneducated equals low value equals unproductive... I here can take 2 possible ways to explain why I disagree... the first way is of course by providing examples of people that have low levels of education and still are hard-workers and some even quite productive.... but here I am going to take the other way to my argument... this is... to provide examples of people with higher levels of education that don't do nothing of value for society if anything it appears that some of them give a negative value to society, as in... destroying it instead of increasing it... and this highly educate are indeed very unproductive...

                              As an example I am going to give you about 70% of people walking out of an university with a degree...

                              There used to be a time where archiving higher education was a staple of the most productive, best members of our society... all this is done and over, the day prestige colleges decided to give degrees in gender studies to snowflakes so they can become professional online activists.

                              And then again.. there is that part that you are talking about low value and unproductive when you talk about immigrants... you should double check those numbers... you sure they are the ones being lazy?

                              as for futurist predictions, in the 70s by 2000 we were supposed to live in a socialist high tech utopia where our biggest problem was going to be what to do with all our leisure time, that had run out of oil, if an ice age didn't get us first.........instead we are working harder for less, have an oil glut, and global warming.
                              I agree with the futuristic predictions things being pipe-dreams... I used to think technology have not limits and it will magically fix all of our problems. And also we will find another beautiful place to move to, so we was going to live on the moon, or we was going to do hyperspace jumps and colonize the galaxy or now... we are going to move to Mars... Today I am a lot less optimistic about this kind of things... I see all this technology dreams as that pipeline dreams that help people deal with the bad and the ugly we have today, by dreaming with a better tomorrow or a better another place... but the reality is that most of this dreams will never going to come true...

                              50 years ago they say we was going to have a 2 billion people colony on the moon and we was going to go about our day on flying cars and the so... Today people say we are goign to move half the people to Mars and machines will do all our work...

                              McDonald have being developing that cook robot for over 10 years now, and have little to no progress... I would have though flipping burgers at McDonalds was one of the lowest more unskilled jobs there can be... why a machine can't do it? and if machines can't flip burgers at McDs then... realistically... what jobs they can do?

                              I am actually very very disappointed that they have not figure that robot yet... it didn't sounds so impossible to get, I still kinda hope we get it on our future.. but that is pretty much the best it will get.

                              from what I can gather a delivery person could once afford a house and a family with a stay at home wife quite easily, but that would be a pre socialist, pre academic elitist social engineering time......it would seem our good hearts and trust in others is what has cost us what we valued most.
                              Put that way... it looks like we didn't really lose much of value... I mean... I lose the grant opportunity to kill myself in a factory to afford a "stay at home wife"???

                              Sounds like I am getting a much better deal now... Maybe I have not being fair with feminism, if they prevented me from such fate... makes me think... we should try having more feminism to see what more of those "valued" things we get lose... LOL.
                              Last edited by simpleman; 03-15-2019, 12:05 PM.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X