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  • Techniques For Debating A Feminist?

    I'm currently in a debate with a male feminist and trying out various tactics. I tried the hardline "how can you be this stupid" approach but they just closed off and doubled down.

    I switched to the "apologize for getting angry" approach and I'm waiting to hear back
    Numbnuts just can't fathom that men are legitimately denied human rights while women are usually only denied privileges in first world countries.
    I'm in the middle of the ol wage gap debate

  • #2
    It depends on the feminist.

    Here's a good example:

    Comment


    • #3
      Her initial approach calling the feminist crazy certainly wasn't working for me Had to switch gears into finding some "common ground", which is really just rewording the facts to be less confrontational so this twit might actually be inclined to read them.

      Comment


      • #4
        If he's dating, married to or sleeping with an outspoken/vocal feminist...good luck. lol You probably won't get through.

        Dismantling feminism usually isn't done with common debates on topics...he will have to get screwed over by feminism to eventually abandon it. There are some decent points about feminism (in theory)...but, it's not about equality, it's about entitlements for women.

        A good piece of advice when debating anyone, about anything...is to know when to walk away, and don't stoop to ad homs and name calling. Stay calm, and argue the points of the topic, don't cut to the character of the person you're debating with, because it will cause your listener to shut down. If someone starts name calling and such during a debate, he/she probably doesn't have a strong debate. So, that's my general advice.
        Last edited by Deidre; 02-11-2017, 06:50 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          The point of arguing with feminists is to show the audience how insane they are. One on one there is no point beyond perhaps honing your own logic and arguments, but if you are trying to convert them... well, it's probably a lost cause. I know I don't have the energy to devote to trying to reason with insane people for their sake.
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_sY2rjxq6M

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by mik1 View Post
            I'm currently in a debate with a male feminist and trying out various tactics. I tried the hardline "how can you be this stupid" approach but they just closed off and doubled down.

            I switched to the "apologize for getting angry" approach and I'm waiting to hear back
            Numbnuts just can't fathom that men are legitimately denied human rights while women are usually only denied privileges in first world countries.
            I'm in the middle of the ol wage gap debate

            I find earplugs and a good book pretty effective.
            FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
            It's time to call it out for what it is.



            The World of Men - Men's Rights / MGTOW / Sites of Interest to Men

            http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showt...nterest-to-Men

            Comment


            • #7
              If you want to show a male Feminist the light, don't argue/confront. I find that idealists of ALL beliefs tend to become enamoured with idea, not fact. Just chit chat politely, then subtly steer the conversation towards sex, then as you're about to get up and go...

              If he's a Millennial, tell him "You must be getting laid a lot more than your non-Feminist buddies!"

              If not, tell him, "You must be getting laid a lot more since becoming a Feminist!".

              Either way, don't wait for his reply, because A: you've just delivered the payload, and B: his initial reaction will just be to deny that Feminism is a portal to her feminine parts. Ironically, showing support for Feminism ISN'T an effective way of getting your fuck on with women, quite the opposite. He'll eventually realise that horrible, horrible truth, later or sooner, and thanks to you planting the seed in his head, sooner.
              >>"and in other news, the Judge in the case of AVFM Vs Feminazism ruled today that the creators of 'Gender Equality' are guilty of Intent to Obtain Social Change by Deception. The Feminazi case collapsed just one day into the trial, after a 1st year medical student demonstrated that men are not, in fact, equal to women".<<


              Newbie AVFM Member, 2 days in: "My eyes, why do my eyes hurt?"

              Jaybee, cautious tone: "You've never used them before".

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by mik1 View Post
                I'm currently in a debate with a male feminist and trying out various tactics. I tried the hardline "how can you be this stupid" approach but they just closed off and doubled down.

                I switched to the "apologize for getting angry" approach and I'm waiting to hear back
                Numbnuts just can't fathom that men are legitimately denied human rights while women are usually only denied privileges in first world countries.
                I'm in the middle of the ol wage gap debate
                Hi,

                I: Get some books on how to argue. There's plenty of them.

                II: I'll put down the most trivial of basics. A fifth of knowledge solves four-fifths of problems.
                Below is a fifth of a fifth of a fifth of a ...


                A: Craftsmanship Case - Individual conversations


                "What is right" in many versions depends on where and how people see their "ultimates". The two important ultimates in debate are the true and the good.

                Note that people are doers, which means that the good is the ultimate ultimate, so to speak; and the true serves to achieve the good.

                Values
                Most people do not really know what they say when they are speaking. That's not my opinion, that is Hegel. That doesn't make it true, but it sure makes it hard to debate
                Somewhere in everyone's hierarchy of views and preferences, there's usually some inconsistency, like being in favour of equality and fairness, and therefore becoming a feminist.
                One cannot be a feminist of the here so often lamented type and also be in favour of equality and fairness.
                If you want to trip them up on this, then always convert some claim into an application of a principle:
                - Hitting women is wrong.
                - OK. And that is wrong because hitting is wrong, right?
                - Yes. It's violence. It's abuse.
                - Agree. And all violence is wrong. All abuse is wrong. Right?
                - Deffo.
                - So .... tell me ...

                Honesty
                If they revert to the claim that this only holds for women, then go to " 'X holds only for one sex' is the very definition of sexism".
                IOW, maintain the factual high ground. Be right. That means no lying, no cutting corners, no hyperbole, no sophistry.
                While it's time consuming to do so, all these can be refuted, making you the bad guy.

                Truth
                What is factual and what is not is hardly ever possible to establish, because we all rely on second-hand to, like, 37-hand reports.
                The main question is always: how do we know? Make them account for that. Do the wikipedia thing and discount all non-reliable sources.
                Have reliable sources.

                Tone
                To find these inconsistencies, you have to listen like psychoanalyst, and ask like an interrogation specialist; or vice versa.
                Ask questions, let them speak, at length, and reply with questions that steer them towards ever higher principles.

                Edit: This is the realm of "why"-questions. Always ask for justification. What is the reason they think this or that?

                Sooner or later the cracks will appear.
                If converting is the goal, it's very useful to let them do most of the talking, because nobody can be converted against their will, but people can change their minds if they feel it is them doing it.
                Never press for an admission.


                B. Industrial case - before an audience
                As others have pointed out, when performing debate in public, the minds of the audience are both the playing field, the rules, the goal and the prize.
                Like a duel, it is not about who is right, but about surviving the fight, preferably as the winner.
                You can do worse than have a peak at Schopenhauer's "Art of Controversy - 38 tricks for felling your opponent", which is published online.
                It's a bit dated, the language is cumbersome - but still readable - and the fundamentals are rock solid.
                And again, I'm sure there are lots of modern publications on this.
                Like war, du to the myriad possible configurations of forces, there is no general advice to be given.
                The painful lesson of sports holds here, too: "Training gives results."
                No training, no results.

                This forum, btw, is a good place to practice - plenty people with strong opinions here, and you've got nothing to lose

                HTH

                M
                Last edited by Manalysis; 02-13-2017, 06:21 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ComradePrescott View Post
                  The point of arguing with feminists is to show the audience how insane they are.
                  Basically this.

                  Though there is a difference between the card-carry insane liberal arts grad 'feminist' and the person who just thinks feminism means 'equal rights for women' who doesn't have time to watch a few Milo vids or a read a Warren Farrell book.
                  "Being a cunt doesn't make you wrong." ComradePrescott

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Maxx View Post
                    Basically this.

                    Though there is a difference between the card-carry insane liberal arts grad 'feminist' and the person who just thinks feminism means 'equal rights for women' who doesn't have time to watch a few Milo vids or a read a Warren Farrell book.
                    yeah, and the second type you can always use the analogy of socialists = feminist

                    they always say "those arnt feminists" who are doing those evil things

                    well ok then. at what point do you distance yourself from feminism???

                    i mean lets place you in 1920 germany.

                    socialist party is doing amazing things.

                    YOU are a socialist!!! AND PROUD

                    ... at what point do you distance yourself from the party?

                    nuf said
                    Originally posted by MatrixTransform
                    where were you before you put yourself last?
                    Originally posted by TheNarrator
                    Everywhere I travel, tiny life. Single-serving sugar, single-serving cream, single pat of butter. The microwave Cordon Bleu hobby kit. Shampoo-conditioner combos, sample-packaged mouthwash, tiny bars of soap. The people I meet on each flight? They're single-serving friends.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Deidre View Post
                      If he's dating, married to or sleeping with an outspoken/vocal feminist...good luck. lol You probably won't get through.

                      Dismantling feminism usually isn't done with common debates on topics...he will have to get screwed over by feminism to eventually abandon it. There are some decent points about feminism (in theory)...but, it's not about equality, it's about entitlements for women.

                      A good piece of advice when debating anyone, about anything...is to know when to walk away, and don't stoop to ad homs and name calling. Stay calm, and argue the points of the topic, don't cut to the character of the person you're debating with, because it will cause your listener to shut down. If someone starts name calling and such during a debate, he/she probably doesn't have a strong debate. So, that's my general advice.
                      This is one possibility, and a very valid one.

                      There is however another possibility.... A male feminist whom has not won the genetic lottery and internally knows that he cannot compete against a large percentage of other men.

                      I.E. He's suffering from r reproductive strategy, much like the diminutive male cuttlefish who makes himself appear female and lurks at the bottom of the reef with the females, while the males are engaged in battle (competition), and while the alpha male cuttlefish are battling it out, he's slipping the females some skin...

                      r Reproductive strategy men are probably the absolute worst of the male species, they are often very manipulative, much like a cluster B, and will throw even their best male friends under the bus, if they think they can get ahead... And that includes ANY activity between men, not only in the sexual market place...

                      I have a couple of "friends" like that...

                      Something I've recently figured out about so called friends, I've figured out about four categories that your friends will fit into, and the most important thing to do is NOT pay any attention to their words, but evaluate their actions only.

                      There are friends that are genuinely happy when they hear news of your successes.

                      There are friends that are indifferent to your successes.

                      There are friends that are jealous of news of your successes.

                      Then their are friends (whom are actually enemies in disguise) that actively seek to subvert or sabotage your successes or potential successes. They will use deception, commit calumny, and even actively sabotage you, all the while they are smiling to you to your face, acting 'happy' for you... Which is a genuine expression, but for the wrong reason... They are smiling because they already know that they are in the process of sabotaging you...

                      They are engaging in competition with you, but you don't even realize that your in 'the game', so your left unprepared... It feels like the other team just took the field and started playing the game, and your still in the locker room...

                      Once you vet out these types of friends, and eliminate them from your life, they don't just go away... They will seek information from your other friends to keep tabs on your life, and continue to sabotage you...

                      I've figured out who these people are in my life, yet I've not figured out how to win, by refusing to play their games, because they keep sucking you back in by proxy of other mutual friends sharing your info with them... For you can't keep everything about you a secret from everyone, and there is always mutual friends, who can't see what's happening, so they are always 'in the know' about you.

                      I suppose that's why the Catholic Church identifies Calumny as a mortal sin, and one should never share or talk about another, to third party, without them being actually present...

                      One more thing, Many times this even happens within immediate family members. It's pretty complex form of dysfunction, and it's difficult to overcome when your sleeping with or related to the 'double agent' enemy...

                      I didn't fully get what was happening until I recently identified a so called friend has a habit of doing these things to me, just as my ex was actively sabotaging my ability to provide for our family, and noticed the comparison actions...
                      Ephesians 5 "Husbands, Love your wives like Christ loved the Church". (Wives, give your husbands something to love).
                      "Wives, RESPECT your husbands". (Husbands, give your wives something to respect.)

                      For a man does not truly feel loved unless his wife, mother, and children display respect to him.

                      "From each MAN according to his abilty, to each WOMAN according to her need"... Allison Tienemann

                      "Feminism is a HATE group... Feminists are HATEFUL people"... Mr. e

                      "In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem."... Ronald Reagan

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by theplummer View Post
                        This is one possibility, and a very valid one.

                        There is however another possibility.... A male feminist whom has not won the genetic lottery and internally knows that he cannot compete against a large percentage of other men.

                        I.E. He's suffering from r reproductive strategy, much like the diminutive male cuttlefish who makes himself appear female and lurks at the bottom of the reef with the females, while the males are engaged in battle (competition), and while the alpha male cuttlefish are battling it out, he's slipping the females some skin...

                        r Reproductive strategy men are probably the absolute worst of the male species, they are often very manipulative, much like a cluster B, and will throw even their best male friends under the bus, if they think they can get ahead... And that includes ANY activity between men, not only in the sexual market place...

                        I have a couple of "friends" like that...

                        Something I've recently figured out about so called friends, I've figured out about four categories that your friends will fit into, and the most important thing to do is NOT pay any attention to their words, but evaluate their actions only.

                        There are friends that are genuinely happy when they hear news of your successes.

                        There are friends that are indifferent to your successes.

                        There are friends that are jealous of news of your successes.

                        Then their are friends (whom are actually enemies in disguise) that actively seek to subvert or sabotage your successes or potential successes. They will use deception, commit calumny, and even actively sabotage you, all the while they are smiling to you to your face, acting 'happy' for you... Which is a genuine expression, but for the wrong reason... They are smiling because they already know that they are in the process of sabotaging you...

                        They are engaging in competition with you, but you don't even realize that your in 'the game', so your left unprepared... It feels like the other team just took the field and started playing the game, and your still in the locker room...

                        Once you vet out these types of friends, and eliminate them from your life, they don't just go away... They will seek information from your other friends to keep tabs on your life, and continue to sabotage you...

                        I've figured out who these people are in my life, yet I've not figured out how to win, by refusing to play their games, because they keep sucking you back in by proxy of other mutual friends sharing your info with them... For you can't keep everything about you a secret from everyone, and there is always mutual friends, who can't see what's happening, so they are always 'in the know' about you.

                        I suppose that's why the Catholic Church identifies Calumny as a mortal sin, and one should never share or talk about another, to third party, without them being actually present...

                        One more thing, Many times this even happens within immediate family members. It's pretty complex form of dysfunction, and it's difficult to overcome when your sleeping with or related to the 'double agent' enemy...

                        I didn't fully get what was happening until I recently identified a so called friend has a habit of doing these things to me, just as my ex was actively sabotaging my ability to provide for our family, and noticed the comparison actions...

                        Feel the same in many ways. I went to a slam poetry event this weekend and the focus was God, I've never heard slam poetry on a spiritual level before. And then some of the poets just spoke for a while and the theme was how we (everyone) are all guilty of doing some of the things we hate to see in others. But, once you self reflect, you learn from your mistakes and change your ways. We all have the capacity to be saints or sinners on any given day, but some people never reflect and just keep hurting others. The best you can do is pray for them...from afar. I've let go of a few "friends" online and offline because they just don't edify my life, and just want to subtract from it. The key is to not hate or hurt in return but just move on and hopefully, they'll learn.

                        Feminists are often not deliberately hurtful people, they are more ignorant than anything else. :/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by theplummer View Post
                          This is one possibility, and a very valid one.

                          There is however another possibility.... A male feminist whom has not won the genetic lottery and internally knows that he cannot compete against a large percentage of other men.

                          I.E. He's suffering from r reproductive strategy, much like the diminutive male cuttlefish who makes himself appear female and lurks at the bottom of the reef with the females, while the males are engaged in battle (competition), and while the alpha male cuttlefish are battling it out, he's slipping the females some skin...

                          r Reproductive strategy men are probably the absolute worst of the male species, they are often very manipulative, much like a cluster B, and will throw even their best male friends under the bus, if they think they can get ahead... And that includes ANY activity between men, not only in the sexual market place...

                          I have a couple of "friends" like that...

                          Something I've recently figured out about so called friends, I've figured out about four categories that your friends will fit into, and the most important thing to do is NOT pay any attention to their words, but evaluate their actions only.

                          There are friends that are genuinely happy when they hear news of your successes.

                          There are friends that are indifferent to your successes.

                          There are friends that are jealous of news of your successes.

                          Then their are friends (whom are actually enemies in disguise) that actively seek to subvert or sabotage your successes or potential successes. They will use deception, commit calumny, and even actively sabotage you, all the while they are smiling to you to your face, acting 'happy' for you... Which is a genuine expression, but for the wrong reason... They are smiling because they already know that they are in the process of sabotaging you...

                          They are engaging in competition with you, but you don't even realize that your in 'the game', so your left unprepared... It feels like the other team just took the field and started playing the game, and your still in the locker room...

                          Once you vet out these types of friends, and eliminate them from your life, they don't just go away... They will seek information from your other friends to keep tabs on your life, and continue to sabotage you...

                          I've figured out who these people are in my life, yet I've not figured out how to win, by refusing to play their games, because they keep sucking you back in by proxy of other mutual friends sharing your info with them... For you can't keep everything about you a secret from everyone, and there is always mutual friends, who can't see what's happening, so they are always 'in the know' about you.

                          I suppose that's why the Catholic Church identifies Calumny as a mortal sin, and one should never share or talk about another, to third party, without them being actually present...

                          One more thing, Many times this even happens within immediate family members. It's pretty complex form of dysfunction, and it's difficult to overcome when your sleeping with or related to the 'double agent' enemy...

                          I didn't fully get what was happening until I recently identified a so called friend has a habit of doing these things to me, just as my ex was actively sabotaging my ability to provide for our family, and noticed the comparison actions...

                          Male Feminists are more like Anglerfish... those are the ones where the male latches on to the female and slowly is absorbed by her until all that remains of him is his balls... which she them drops into her purse and skips off, never to be seen again...

                          Wikipedia: Anglerfish
                          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglerfish
                          FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
                          It's time to call it out for what it is.



                          The World of Men - Men's Rights / MGTOW / Sites of Interest to Men

                          http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showt...nterest-to-Men

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
                            It's time to call it out for what it is.



                            The World of Men - Men's Rights / MGTOW / Sites of Interest to Men

                            http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showt...nterest-to-Men

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Maxx View Post
                              Basically this.

                              Though there is a difference between the card-carry insane liberal arts grad 'feminist' and the person who just thinks feminism means 'equal rights for women' who doesn't have time to watch a few Milo vids or a read a Warren Farrell book.

                              Fun Fact: People who debate Feminists are often devoutly religious.

                              FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
                              It's time to call it out for what it is.



                              The World of Men - Men's Rights / MGTOW / Sites of Interest to Men

                              http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showt...nterest-to-Men

                              Comment

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