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"Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

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  • "Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

    This is FUCK YOUR OPINION with Victor Zen

    Men should stop treating women like objects!
    Men don't treat you like lamps or footstools, but if you are a hot
    woman, can't you just be okay with the fact that guys just might want to fuck you?

    God damn, there is nothing wrong with that. A lot of us were born that
    way. If you would not trash gay men for liking dick, don't trash straight men for liking tits.

    Oh... I'm sorry, does that bother you? If so, why? Why the FUCK are you
    getting bent out of shape about heterosexual males feeling what comes
    naturally to them?

    You suck.
    Sage Gerard (A.K.A. Victor Zen)
    Collegiate Activism Director, AVfM Operations LLC
    Founder and CEO, Zen Men LLC

  • #2
    RE: "Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

    It does seem very strange to me. I see many people advocating for women's freedom of sexuality and pride in their sexuality without any sort of regard or constraint whereas male sexuality appears regularly vilified.

    I think there is this narrative where males are all sex crazed chumps without any depth and females are suffering the misfortune of having depth and being forced to interact with romantic prospects that are so far beneath them. Females, of course, being romantic while men are sexual.

    It seems to me that women are not restricted or oppressed in their sexuality as per feminism's depicition, simply that there is a set of special words and proper language to use when discussing female sexuality such that they can do whatever they want but remain completely pure and safe at the same time. Men want sex and women want love, for example.

    It all seems very bitter, petty, and spiteful to me. Would it not be better to view sexuality as benign when it does not do anyone any harm regardless of the sex of the person in question?

    I find myself tired of trying to prove my worth as human being as if there is an onus upon me to prove that I am in fact not despicable. It also seems to me so very short-sighted. I see so many older women that are what I would describe as bitter spinsters. Divorced multiple times and typically gold-diggers. Some of them are successful gold-diggers. But they remain spiteful, bitter, petty, and angry. And they hate younger women and the freedom of female sexuality that they once thought so fine.

    They have forged their own unhappiness and that of others.

    And of course, it is a simply ridiculously hypocritical contention. Men think of women as objects? Men admire women's beauty, to be sure, but what woman remains on a sinking ship to save a man?

    What woman marries a man below her station? What woman marries a man who does not make enough money? What woman marries a man who is not a equally or more attractive level then her?

    This is not an absolute I am sure, but I never knew of any female who wanted a male partner because of the good man he was on the inside. Only his measurable value of money, power, body, and utility matter and that seems far more like the description of a useful object then a person to me.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_sY2rjxq6M

    Comment


    • #3
      RE: "Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

      G'day Victor.

      Joisas! You sure are passionate about the objectification-shaming-feminist thing aye?

      I like it.

      Of course the rebuttal can come from another field and that is, "Stop treating my body as a workhorse that pads your purse with hundred dollar bills for your expensive lifestyle", or "A wallet is an object and my body is not to be conflated with that wallet shaped object thank you very much mam."

      How about the old classic bartering number, - "That object (pointing to her muff) is mine tonight after this object (pointing to your body) takes that object out (pointing to her rubbish bin) and mows that object (pointing to her lawn). Then, after that object (pointing to her) and this object (pointing to yourself) are done rolling about on that object (pointing to her bed) then this object (pointing to yourself) will pick up that object (pointing to your car keys) and walk out that object (pointing to her front door) whilst waving this object (pointing to your other hand) while this object (pointing to your mouth) makes the noise, 'Goodbye for now'.

      The deal can collapse or be ratified with the closing enquiry:

      I do hope there are no object-ions with the suggestion you are acting like a whore mam.

      Comment


      • #4
        RE: "Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

        LoL, I objectify my wife all the time, matter of fact I tell her when I'm doing it. I think there is a little sense of perversion because she likes it.

        Anyway, this whole discussion is about control. Women want to control how men view them; if it is a man they are attracted to, It
        ethikē aretē--phronesis--eudaimonia
        virtue of character--practical/ethical wisdom--human flourishing

        It is not a battle to win but an attitude to share.
        AVFM Mission Statement
        sigpic

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        • #5
          RE: "Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

          Just tell them that they should wait until they hit the magic age of 46. At that point women apparently become "invisible" to men (according to numerous articles), and then the big complaint is that men don't pay any attention to women.
          “No one is free who has not obtained the empire of himself. No man is free who cannot command himself.”
          ― Pythagoras

          Comment


          • #6
            RE: "Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

            Women want attention. Getting that with positive or negative ways - it doesn't matter.
            The moment a woman rejects a man, it's actually the same thing as trying to be 'pretty' and 'sexy'. It's all about attention...
            How can't people see it's all about biology and automatic behavior?
            Women will always try to manipulate men. Always. Saying whatever logic doesn't help. There is no rational thought(without automatic emotionalism).

            Comment


            • #7
              RE: "Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

              Originally posted by Albatros
              How can't people see it's all about biology and automatic behavior?
              Women will always try to manipulate men. Always. Saying whatever logic doesn't help. There is no rational thought(without automatic emotionalism).


              [video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKveOsIieHg[/video]
              Grandmother Stabs Her 4-Year-Old Grandson To Death
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIB4yE2xGkU

              Comment


              • #8
                RE: "Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

                Originally posted by corbyworld

                [video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKveOsIieHg[/video]
                Pretty much like that

                Comment


                • #9
                  RE: "Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

                  Originally posted by ComradePrescott
                  I think there is this narrative where males are all sex crazed chumps without any depth and females are suffering the misfortune of having depth and being forced to interact with romantic prospects that are so far beneath them. Females, of course, being romantic while men are sexual.
                  The problem I have with "being romantic" is that it's inevitably just a series of hoops you are expected to jump through. I've found that the more practical people are, the less romantic they tend to be.

                  My first girlfriend and I got along really well. I never bought her a present, took her to dinner, or spent any money on her. Likewise, she never spent anything on me. On occasion we would have something that we both wanted to do, and we would figure out the cheapest and easiest way to do it. Most of the time, we would just hang out. Cooking, studying, and sex.

                  At the time I felt really guilty about not being romantic enough. By the standards set by society, we had a remarkably unromantic relationship. I talked with her about this, and she said that she didn't want me wasting money on her.

                  I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the idea of romance is really arbitrary. In my opinion, functional relationships work in spite of romance, while dysfunctional ones are more likely to be built around romance.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    RE: "Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

                    Originally posted by victor.zen
                    If you would not trash gay men for liking dick
                    I'm in ur threads objectifying yer trousers









                    If you got tones, I'm here to lower them.


                    Actually in all seriousness, since victor.zen brings it up, how would you feel about gay male eyes on your body? How would you feel about being the object? Flattery? Disgust? Laugh it off?

                    I'm not asking this question to shame anyone, and I am aware that in the scenario I am asking about there may other factors at play that inform your reaction, I just feel it adds another dimension to the objectification question and its important, I think, to at least be honest with ourselves.
                    Lazy-arsed gobshite

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      RE: "Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

                      Originally posted by Gruffalo
                      Actually in all seriousness, since victor.zen brings it up, how would you feel about gay male eyes on your body? How would you feel about being the object? Flattery? Disgust? Laugh it off?
                      Flattery. Its happened to me before, and its nice to know you are attractive to somebody. Granted, it can be awkward since the gay guy is embarrassed, but I try to make sure he doesn't feel ashamed. They have their own set of stereotypes to deal with, and letting them feel awkward may prevent them from developing the confidence to laugh it off themselves.
                      Sage Gerard (A.K.A. Victor Zen)
                      Collegiate Activism Director, AVfM Operations LLC
                      Founder and CEO, Zen Men LLC

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        RE: "Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

                        [video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkUhW41Qpjg[/video]
                        Shieldwife had a good response to objectification here.

                        Originally posted by Gruffalo
                        Actually in all seriousness, since victor.zen brings it up, how would you feel about gay male eyes on your body? How would you feel about being the object? Flattery? Disgust? Laugh it off?

                        I'm not asking this question to shame anyone, and I am aware that in the scenario I am asking about there may other factors at play that inform your reaction, I just feel it adds another dimension to the objectification question and its important, I think, to at least be honest with ourselves.
                        In my experience, most truly straight men have one of the above reactions to being approached (Flattered, mildly disgusted, amusement, no reaction) (I don't approach people I don't already know very well, but I know a lot of gay/bi folks who would.) In my experience, when a guy panics because another guy is looking at him, it is either do to denial of one's own homosexual feelings (resulting in anger), and/or insecurity about one's own body image (resulting in fear).
                        The ancient shitposter returns.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          RE: "Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

                          I got a sneaky suspicion that the women who shout about being objectified are worried it isn't happening to them!
                          Once you get past 40 unless you do the whole chasing youth through makeup etc, as a woman you are increasingly invisible. Not much fun if it screws with your sense of entitlement
                          I grew up kinda homely, only really grew into strong bone structure in my 30s.
                          I love it when a bloke sees me as 'hey, nice looking woman'
                          And hell yes, I'm looking too. Had my housemate in fits of laughter in my commentary about our good looking postman and how long he would last on our round...
                          Be still and cool in thine own mind and spirit.
                          George Fox

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            RE: "Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

                            Originally posted by Aimee McGee
                            I got a sneaky suspicion that the women who shout about being objectified are worried it isn't happening to them!
                            Once you get past 40 unless you do the whole chasing youth through makeup etc, as a woman you are increasingly invisible. Not much fun if it screws with your sense of entitlement
                            I grew up kinda homely, only really grew into strong bone structure in my 30s.
                            I love it when a bloke sees me as 'hey, nice looking woman'
                            And hell yes, I'm looking too. Had my housemate in fits of laughter in my commentary about our good looking postman and how long he would last on our round...
                            I'm glad you brought this up. I recall middle aged women telling me that they miss the cat calls. They only found them annoying in youth since they would not stop, but age made them come to appreciate the positive attention.

                            A multilinguial friend of mine in the service was stationed in Afghanistan got the chance to visit France and Germany. He was a lighter brown color, well-built and handsome. He was also considered exotic by the women there. He told me that he enjoyed the attention he got from the non-American women, but eventually grew tired of it. Since women would actually fight over him and slap his ass, he started to get offended by the lack of privacy. He essentially felt like a "piece of meat."

                            But, once he came back to America and no one gave a shit anymore, he started to miss it all.

                            This is kind of telling, I think.
                            Sage Gerard (A.K.A. Victor Zen)
                            Collegiate Activism Director, AVfM Operations LLC
                            Founder and CEO, Zen Men LLC

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              RE: "Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

                              Originally posted by mauvebutterfly
                              Originally posted by ComradePrescott
                              I think there is this narrative where males are all sex crazed chumps without any depth and females are suffering the misfortune of having depth and being forced to interact with romantic prospects that are so far beneath them. Females, of course, being romantic while men are sexual.
                              The problem I have with "being romantic" is that it's inevitably just a series of hoops you are expected to jump through. I've found that the more practical people are, the less romantic they tend to be.

                              My first girlfriend and I got along really well. I never bought her a present, took her to dinner, or spent any money on her. Likewise, she never spent anything on me. On occasion we would have something that we both wanted to do, and we would figure out the cheapest and easiest way to do it. Most of the time, we would just hang out. Cooking, studying, and sex.

                              At the time I felt really guilty about not being romantic enough. By the standards set by society, we had a remarkably unromantic relationship. I talked with her about this, and she said that she didn't want me wasting money on her.

                              I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the idea of romance is really arbitrary. In my opinion, functional relationships work in spite of romance, while dysfunctional ones are more likely to be built around romance.
                              I think that what you touch on is just our present conventional standards for romance which I agree are dysfunctional. I'm of a mind that love ought to be nurtured. Healthy love is the love of a seed planted and carefully thought for so that it grows into a strong tree and survives the ages whereas "exciting movie-love" is like a rose. Pretty for a moment, thorny, and wilts quickly.

                              You sound like you have found a fine lady, so congratulations on that. I personally consider myself to be a romantic, but not conventionally. If someone remarks a fondness for something or cares to share with me their thoughts, I may in time turn that to some positive effect for them with the details in mind if I care for them. For example, getting someone a book by a favored author or surprising them with something they could not obtain themselves on say their birthday or some such.

                              But I agree, the current and most commonly understood meaning of "romance" really just involves a lot of hoops and the jumping therein.

                              Originally posted by Gruffalo
                              Originally posted by victor.zen
                              If you would not trash gay men for liking dick
                              I'm in ur threads objectifying yer trousers









                              If you got tones, I'm here to lower them.


                              Actually in all seriousness, since victor.zen brings it up, how would you feel about gay male eyes on your body? How would you feel about being the object? Flattery? Disgust? Laugh it off?

                              I'm not asking this question to shame anyone, and I am aware that in the scenario I am asking about there may other factors at play that inform your reaction, I just feel it adds another dimension to the objectification question and its important, I think, to at least be honest with ourselves.
                              I get hit on by gay guys pretty regularly, I will admit. To be honest, I'm not particularly disgusted. Probably just more embarrassed to admit it in real life due to the ridiculous and subtle levels of homophobia in Australia. But anyway, I get hit on by a gay guy (well, I assume he must be gay... heh) about once a month and really I am just flattered.

                              Honestly, it does more to tell me about my level of attractiveness than my interactions with women because I find men in general to be more straight forward and honest simply. I can never tell what girls want or mean or think half the time.

                              I always feel a kind of repulsion, but that's simply because I am a heterosexual male. A very ugly woman might stir the same sort of repulsion in me, but I think I've a civil and cordial enough nature that I never let it manifest perceptibly.

                              So, no. It does not offend me or disgust me overmuch and I reject it out of my own tastes, but I do appreciate it as a form of compliment. It does not objectify me. Sexual attraction based on physical attributes is in my opinion typically benign.
                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_sY2rjxq6M

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