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OK, so who are our rational feminist allies?

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  • OK, so who are our rational feminist allies?

    A noob question, but I'd like to ask.

    I've been learning more about Christina Hoff Sommers, and I was wondering who else was out there, in terms of rational and intelligent feminists who lost control of the movement. Can anyone educate me on this topic? Are there other examples of marginalized feminists who fought for true gender equality or campaigned for men's issues in a way that did not demonize us? Thank you.

  • #2
    I actually have little to complain about Summers. She tends to understand that with great power comes great responsibility. Many radical feminists don't really like her.

    I could probably live with her, but it wouldn't be ideal, as I don't believe an egalitarian relationship between the sexes is possible. The different genders just have different imperatives and to my mind the biblical patriarchal relationship is the best model. However, as far as a woman living in the "rest of the world" I have not herd anything yet that makes me cringe.
    Ephesians 5 "Husbands, Love your wives like Christ loved the Church". (Wives, give your husbands something to love).
    "Wives, RESPECT your husbands". (Husbands, give your wives something to respect.)

    For a man does not truly feel loved unless his wife, mother, and children display respect to him.

    "From each MAN according to his abilty, to each WOMAN according to her need"... Allison Tienemann

    "Feminism is a HATE group... Feminists are HATEFUL people"... Mr. e

    "In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem."... Ronald Reagan

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    • #3
      Probably lots of choices out there, such as "Chicks On The Right" etc.
      Problem is the premise. First you have to swallow the feminist premise, hook, line and sinker, that women are oppressed. Sorry, if that's your starting point, you have already lost. If its a feminist, it cannot, by definition, "be on our side" because their starting point is a false assumption,
      You don't change your opponent by accepting their reasoning as your starting point.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Crumbock View Post
        Probably lots of choices out there, such as "Chicks On The Right" etc.
        Problem is the premise. First you have to swallow the feminist premise, hook, line and sinker, that women are oppressed. Sorry, if that's your starting point, you have already lost. If its a feminist, it cannot, by definition, "be on our side" because their starting point is a false assumption,
        You don't change your opponent by accepting their reasoning as your starting point.
        The foundation of any feminist belief is The Patriarchy Theory myth... not to be confused with Patriarchal organization, which has more to do with who is ultimately held responsible for the actions within their family unit. Feminism assigns a form of original sin to every male in the history of mankind... basically this is a setup to allow feminist organizations like NOW to use guilt and the shaming of male sexuality to gain political leverage.

        Feminism is nothing more than a special interest lobby group for specific women, using their ability to be used as a voting block... because that is all it has ever done. The National Organization of Women is feminism.. entirely.

        So while Hoff Sommers is somewhat rational, ultimately she is still operating under the same brand as the National Organization of Women. She is mistaken to think she can change the organization from within to be something that has virtue. NOW and Feminism has nothing to do with virtue, or truth, or fairness, or equality.... is all just a giant appeal to state power to manipulate resources and power into the hands of sociopathic people.

        Feminism's relationship to Marxism and other socialist ideologies is just to apparent to hide.

        The more you learn...

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        • #5
          Excellent analysis Iggy. Bullseye.

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          • #6
            Well obviously Naomi Wolf is a reasonable person, though she identifies as a feminist. And you have to understand how, when she does pay attention to certain "women's issues," the way she goes about it is quite different from some of the bad feminists out there. The ones associated with academia and corporations and all.

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            • #7
              There was some feminist game reviewer on youtube who was fairly rational if i remember, i only learned about her trough her video crique of Anita Sarkeesian, can't remember the name though, however i agree with the others, this guys are jsut like neocommunists, too darn idealistic for there own good, you can't make a pie out of turds, they are just attatching a giant ball and chain to there leg.
              I sexually identify as a sword pommel, check your privilege or i will have to end you RIGHTLY.

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              • #8
                Well Sommers identifies herself as a "equity feminist" vs. a "gender feminist." In her perspective, the third wave derailed with the concept of patriarchy. So, if I'm not mistaken, she is a feminist who rejects the fundamental thing that people in this thread associate with feminism. She derides victimhood and rape culture as self-defeating for the movement. I've been watching her university talks on youtube, and so far she hasn't said anything that I disagree with, although I prefer the label of gender egalitarian to "equity feminist." A big part of her platform is blaming human agency, i.e. the choices people make, not some nefarious patriarchal conspiracy.

                You guys should check her videos out, if you have time. It's refreshing to listen to a feminist who doesn't make me cringe. Other feminists say she's really an antifeminist.

                I am just curious if she is a lone voice of sanity.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by TiberiusKirk47 View Post
                  A noob question, but I'd like to ask.

                  I've been learning more about Christina Hoff Sommers, and I was wondering who else was out there, in terms of rational and intelligent feminists who lost control of the movement. Can anyone educate me on this topic? Are there other examples of marginalized feminists who fought for true gender equality or campaigned for men's issues in a way that did not demonize us? Thank you.
                  Camille Paglia is a feminist, and intelligent. So that's at least two out of three, and that ain't bad.

                  M

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                  • #10
                    Hi,

                    Originally posted by Iggy View Post
                    The foundation of any feminist belief is The Patriarchy Theory myth... not to be confused with Patriarchal organization, which has more to do with who is ultimately held responsible for the actions within their family unit.
                    I'll just latch on to this one: the responsibility of the pater familias probably goes way back before the family unit, it goes back to time when the clan was the legal unit, whil the individual person was not. E.g. "blood money" (reparation payments for slain members of other clans) were paid by the clan, not by the person who did the actual killing; and in principle, the money went to the clan, not necessarily to the remaining "close family members". Revenge could be taken on any clan member, again not only against the person who did the actual killing. Etc.

                    M

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Manalysis View Post
                      Camille Paglia is a feminist, and intelligent. So that's at least two out of three, and that ain't bad.

                      M
                      Thanks for the tip. This is typical, isn't it?

                      Paglia has accused Kate Millett of starting "the repressive, Stalinist style in feminist criticism."[42] Paglia has repeatedly criticized Patricia Ireland, former president of the National Organization for Women, calling her a "sanctimonious", unappealing role model for women[43] whose "smug, arrogant" attitude is accompanied by "painfully limited processes of thought".[44] Paglia contends that under Ireland's leadership, NOW "damaged and marginalized the women's movement".[45] Paglia has called feminist philosopher Martha Nussbaum a "PC diva", and accused her of borrowing her ideas without acknowledgement. She further contends that Nussbaum's "preparation or instinct for sex analysis is dubious at best".[46]

                      Many feminists have criticized Paglia; Christina Hoff Sommers calls her "Perhaps the most conspicuous target of feminist opprobrium," noting that the Women's Review of Books described Sexual Personae as a work of "crackpot extremism," "an apologia for a new post-Cold War fascism," and patriarchy's "counter-assault on feminism." Sommers relates that when Paglia appeared at a Brown University forum, feminists signed a petition censuring her and demanding an investigation into procedures for inviting speakers to the campus.[47]
                      This made me laugh:

                      Gloria Steinem said of Paglia that, "Her calling herself a feminist is sort of like a Nazi saying they're not anti-Semitic."[53] Paglia said that Steinem, whom she accused of not having read her, had compared her to Hitler and Sexual Personae to Mein Kampf.[54] Paglia called Steinem "the Stalin of feminism."[9]
                      She is interesting, although it seems ike her beef is with French theorists and academia more than equal rights and men's issues.
                      Last edited by TiberiusKirk47; 07-25-2015, 09:33 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TiberiusKirk47 View Post
                        Thanks for the tip. This is typical, isn't it?
                        YOu should also check out Erin Pizzey, she is not a Feminist for a long time but she was when the thing was formed, she founded forst woman shelter in UK and was subsequentely forced out by radical feminists and bullied into leaving the country.
                        I sexually identify as a sword pommel, check your privilege or i will have to end you RIGHTLY.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Anonymous View Post
                          YOu should also check out Erin Pizzey, she is not a Feminist for a long time but she was when the thing was formed, she founded forst woman shelter in UK and was subsequentely forced out by radical feminists and bullied into leaving the country.
                          Wow. These are fascinating people and examples.

                          Pizzey has been the subject of death threats and boycotts because of her research into the claim that most domestic violence is reciprocal, and that women are equally capable of violence as men. Pizzey has said that the threats were from militant feminists.
                          Pizzey said that militant feminists — with the collusion of Labour's leading women — hijacked her cause and used it to try to demonise all men, not only in Britain, but internationally.[22] Pizzey said of the newly emerging establishment "I never saw Women’s Aid as a movement that was hostile to men, but The National Federation, which quickly formed, made it quite clear that men were the enemy."
                          She states:
                          "I discovered that there were just as many women paedophiles as there were men. Women go undetected, as usual. Working against paedophiles is a very dangerous business."

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TiberiusKirk47 View Post
                            Wow. These are fascinating people and examples.




                            She states:


                            She is also a poster on main site here, http://www.avoiceformen.com/a-voice-...e-erin-pizzey/ check this out.
                            I sexually identify as a sword pommel, check your privilege or i will have to end you RIGHTLY.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thank you Anonymous. That is a very interesting and eye-opening article.

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