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  • mr_e
    replied
    Originally posted by simpleman View Post
    As longs as you don't claim that a washington swamp pedophile lizard was driving the car... I guess you have not crossed the line of sanity with your conspiracy theories.
    Suspect in congressional shooting was Bernie Sanders supporter, strongly anti-Trump
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/14/homepa...ile/index.html

    Emerging portrait of shooting suspect James T. Hodgkinson: Anti-Trump rhetoric on social media, repeat visits to YMCA near Virginia ballfield
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...88f_story.html


    So what about this guy? If he was a Trump *SUPPORTER* instead of ANTI-TRUMP, we'd *still* be hearing about it. But despite the fact that he quit his job and drove all the way from Illinois to attack a totally undefended baseball field full of (what he believed) were REPUBLICAN / right-wing members of congress and their staff-- and calmly stood there for around ten minutes or so shooting everybody he could find-- wounding five people including a US Senator-- but for the grace of God and a bullet from a stricken police officer, no one died.

    "Trump is a Traitor. Trump Has Destroyed Our Democracy. It's Time to Destroy Trump & Co." he posted on his personal Facebook page on March 22.


    "Republicans are the Taliban of the USA," he posted in February.

    He was a extreme as they come.

    And yet, curiously, after an initial news cycle or two, the whole thing has been pretty much swept right off the table.

    Nobody wants *THAT* story. It quite inconveniently doesn't fit anybody's narrative.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mifune
    replied
    Originally posted by mr_e View Post
    In posting this link, I am not calling you "dumb", but rather saying it goes both ways:

    Google Search on "Antifa" - Pick any link you like
    https://www.google.com/search?num=30...&bih=915&dpr=2

    There are multiple forces at work here. At least one of them (Antifa) has publicly vowed to be violent, and has been shown on camera being violent. I am not claiming that the right is not nor has not been violent, or was not violent on that day. All I'm saying is that we are all being played. What we *think* happened, and what *looks* like it happened isn't the whole story. That's all I'm saying.
    And yet it's somehow "offensive" for Trump to acknowledge that there's violent agitators on all sides.

    Wait. That truth doesn't fit some people's ideological world-views. I guess that means it's okay for them to get violent with me.

    Leave a comment:


  • mr_e
    replied
    Originally posted by simpleman View Post
    As longs as you don't claim that a washington swamp pedophile lizard was driving the car... I guess you have not crossed the line of sanity with your conspiracy theories.

    In posting this link, I am not calling you "dumb", but rather saying it goes both ways:

    Google Search on "Antifa" - Pick any link you like
    https://www.google.com/search?num=30...&bih=915&dpr=2

    There are multiple forces at work here. At least one of them (Antifa) has publicly vowed to be violent, and has been shown on camera being violent. I am not claiming that the right is not nor has not been violent, or was not violent on that day. All I'm saying is that we are all being played. What we *think* happened, and what *looks* like it happened isn't the whole story. That's all I'm saying.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mifune
    replied
    Originally posted by Dee View Post
    - Aside from simpleman, what took you so long? This by far exceeds the importance of the "Damoron" case at least.
    Except this is a Men's Rights forum and the James Damore story is actually more topical to the nature of the forum as it is specifically about gender differences and attitudes toward discussing those differences.

    Originally posted by Dee View Post
    - Going over some of the responses, you may not have grasped what actually happened.

    - A man mowed down a group of human beings with his car.

    - Here it goes again in case it didn't sink in: A man .. mowed down .. a group of human beings with his car.

    - This was only one man, his actions doesn't represent the entire group, and what he did was horrific and a clear-cut case of domestic terrorism.
    Everyone understands what happened. Some of us simply have a less myopic view than you.

    There seems to be this hyper-focus on condemning the actions of Mr Fields to the point where any acknowledgement of the other things that went on is somehow disrespectful to the memory of Ms. Heyer. Her death and the injuries suffered by other who were struck are unconscionable. But that was not the only act of violence that occurred, simply the one with the most tragic consequences. Acknowledging the others doesn't diminish this one.

    The truth is that Charlottesville is just one more rotation around the circle of escalation. Antifa attacks people at one event, people who think antifa might be invovled at the next event bring more things to use as weapons. So Antifa has to bring more weapons to the next rally. And then whoever's opposite antifa has to bring more weapons to the rally after that. And so on

    Originally posted by Dee View Post
    - During stressful times like these, the entire nation looks upon one man: The President. They wait for his condemnation of this horrendous act first. And they look to him for words of comfort & great reassurance that such acts will never happen again.
    I don't know about other people, but I haven't needed some authority figure to tell me what is and isn't moral since I was a teenager. Nobody needs to hear the President condemn a murder because everyone knows that murder is wrong. The President weighing in on it changes precisely nothing.

    The opposition to Trump has been more acrimonious than anything I've ever seen in American Politics. And that's the problem. People who hate President Trump are pissed off because he didn't do something he shouldn't have to do in the first place. If people didn't already want to believe the worst about him, it wouldn't be necessary for him to put on a show of condemning something that every decent person finds reprehensible!

    Demanding someone condemn something that on it's very face is reprehensible is functionally no different than accusing someone of being a shitty person. Implicit in the very request / demand is an insult that shouldn't be borne. if I demanded that you condemn pedophilia I doubt you'd be dense enough not to see that I'm challenging you to prove you're not a pedophile, with the implication being that if you don't comply, you must be a pedophile.

    It's patently absurd. Nevermind that there is quite literally nothing Trump could have done to appease his critics. They are looking at all times to find fault.

    Meanwhile 9 people were killed and 30 injured in Chicago last weekend. Where's the outrage. It's Thursday already and I have yet to hear Trump condemn any of these murders. There are roughly 16,000 homicides in the US each year. That 43 people per day on average. Where's the outrage over silence on that? Oh....they're not individually politicized so they're not important.

    Rational people condemn the initiation of violence. That means condemning it when it's some asshole driving a car into a crowd. It means condemning it when it's a white nationalist swinging a stick at someone's head. It means condemning it when it's antifa swing bicycle locks at people's heads. IT....IS....NOT....OKAY

    The truth is that both sides actually are to blame for the escalating tensions and both sides are to blame for part of the violence. The tragic murder of Ms. Heyer and the reprehensible acts by Mr. Fields don't negate that. But focusing myopically on the car incident will effectively obscure the bigger picture.

    Originally posted by Dee View Post
    - Being aware of their public responsibility, republicans across the country wasted no time in harshly condemning the attack, including Jeff Sessions who labeled the attack as an act of terrorism .. and that guy's super conservative and viewed negatively by minorities & activists.
    But they shouldn't have to. It should be understood. It's almost insane. 99% of the world thinks action A is wrong so instead of watching out for the 60 Million people who think it's okay, we need to make the 5.94 Billion all affirm that it's not?

    Leave a comment:


  • mr_e
    replied
    Originally posted by simpleman View Post
    KKK supports and celebrates the car attack:

    http://amp.charlotteobserver.com/new...167303682.html

    I used to live in Charlotte, and sadly there was a lot of this type of thing down there. I don't understand people who hate other people based on their unalterable attributes. Their ideologies-- fine. But to hate people for things they cannot change, that's wrong and evil. A lot of it though was bluff and bluster, part of the culture. But there certainly was the core element who were the real deal.

    And I'm not defending them when I say this-- this is an "and" not a "but"-- *AND* there was also a large contingent of black people who were every bit as ready to go at it as the whites. Some of the most heinous crimes you'll read about have happened at their hands. I won't regale you with any tales because I'm not interested in justifying any of it. I'm just saying that there are multiple sides there.

    You can mull over whether one side or the other "started it" or "keeps it going"-- but in the end, what difference does it really make? Pointing fingers doesn't solve the problem, it only perpetuates it.

    The whole thing is extremely sad-- dangerously sad. And what's worse is that there is a culture of it-- all of it, on all sides-- and people grow up in it, are indoctrinated in it, and caught up in it, and can't see past it to let it go. And so the cycle of violence repeats and is perpetuated and passed along from father to son, brother to brother and even mothers to their children. There is hate there. Lots of hate.

    But there are also good people there too. And people who are just a little fringed around the edges. And it's sometimes hard to know who is who and which is which.

    Leave a comment:


  • simpleman
    replied
    Originally posted by mr_e View Post
    But if you look at the beginning of the tape-- the one taken from the street-- there were LOTS of people he could have mowed down on his way to the center. He was *avoiding* them-- why?
    Hard to know why... if I am to guess... he was still in doubts if he do it or not... but eventually he committed to it and then went ahead.

    Leave a comment:


  • simpleman
    replied
    Originally posted by mr_e View Post
    What hard evidence do you have for this last statement? What can you point to that shows unequivocally that Trump is or panders to any of those groups? All I have ever seen / heard are spun claims of the partisan type and nothing actually real, substantial or concrete that establishes an actual link. I think it has been determined that Trump knows or knew David Duke and has had some dealings with him in the past. But then, so have a lot of people-- on BOTH sides. I don't hear anybody making the claim about them. But Trump himself is not (clearly and obviously) responsible for any claim that Duke makes, or that the KKK makes, or that any "right-wing" / "hate-oriented" group makes or has made-- unless you have clear evidence to the contrary. You can have Charles Manson coming out for Hillary Clinton, and as much as I hate that bitch, unless you can find a tape of her collaborating with him and/or soliciting him for the statement, you really cannot make the case that Hillary Clinton is a Charles Manson Baby-Killer Lover.

    I see you doing your best to present the information as fairly as you can, and I commend you for that. But I am asking (sincerely, because I want to know / find out)-- how are you making the final leap to Trump being complicit and in collusion with any of these groups? He has publicly disavowed them now, recently, and in the distant past even before he started running.

    But I will make one final conjecture-- Trump *IS* a bit egotistical (I certainly think there is plenty of well-documented evidence of that) and (IMO) lacks quite a bit in the social-ethics department, and I wouldn't put it past him-- particularly in the run-up to the campaign-- to drag his feet a little in making his statement so that *BOTH* sides can make from it what they will (with NO input from him)-- which I will happily and unequivocally agree is scuzzy as hell--but it *still* doesn't equate to collusion with any of those groups.

    For the record, I am not a Trump-lover. I did vote for him, and I will praise the heavens that he got elected over Hillary until my dying day-- but that's the complete and sum total of my affinity for Trump. However, that said, I will neither jump on the bandwagon to condemn his every move simply because Hillary didn't win. I think he's spastic, egotistical, a shitshow, and a whole bunch of other things-- but so far, nobody has been able to positively show me how he is connected with "hate". Spews a lot of shit, I agree. Says a lot of stupid stuff, I agree. Says stuff he really ought not to and has to walk it back, I agree to that too. He's a fucking nightmare on wheels. No question about it. But is he *really* connected to hate? So far I haven't seen it.
    This groups have make clear statements that they support Trump...

    Trump in the other hand have not make such strong statement to let them know he is not their friend.

    But then again... as you say, he seems to try to play it fool so he stays open to all... he have hint he is a zionist, as well...

    Eventually he will have to spill the beans and make it clear what his ideologies are.

    But for sure, not helpful that he stays silent or tries to spread blame around when a neo nazi does an attack... back to what i say in OP... when a group of muslims burned down 2 cars in Sweden Trump talked for over a month denounces hate muslim... now all of the sudden he want to be moderated with his statements, and no rush conclusions... and so on... This is starting to look like a pattern on him...

    Leave a comment:


  • mr_e
    replied
    Originally posted by simpleman View Post
    If the red suburban didn't slow him down he would have cross straight through the whole group...

    But if you look at the beginning of the tape-- the one taken from the street-- there were LOTS of people he could have mowed down on his way to the center. He was *avoiding* them-- why?

    Leave a comment:


  • mr_e
    replied
    Originally posted by simpleman View Post
    Neo-nazis picked up the hate for the jews, and it is a very important part of their ideology. KKK also dislike jews, but their think is mostly blacks. Both of them now have the hate for muslims, witch might comes as a surprise, considering that Hitler was OK with them... but oh well...
    Historically you are accurate. And even in this specific instance you are also accurate. But I think the "jews" are a stand-in for any "out group" that the "in group" wants to target and use for a scapegoat. Today it's jews, tomorrow it's "right-wingers". The day after that it will be one-legged-piano-playing-midgets-with-a-gold-tooth. It doesn't matter who gets stuffed in the box. What matters is that there *IS* a box and the media and powers that be are allowed to put people in it and use them to blame the larger issues of society on.

    That is the problem here.

    Leave a comment:


  • mr_e
    replied
    Originally posted by simpleman View Post
    The difference between KKK and the neo-nazis, as I understand it, is that the KKK want to enslave the blacks while the nazis want to kill them... a fundamental ideological difference that have made it impossible for them to fully integrate... though, a much modern middle idea seems to be their solution, that is to enslave the blacks but euthanize them so there will be no more... this is the closest to a middle point between the 2 ideologies. And recently Trump, they both agree in that.
    What hard evidence do you have for this last statement? What can you point to that shows unequivocally that Trump is or panders to any of those groups? All I have ever seen / heard are spun claims of the partisan type and nothing actually real, substantial or concrete that establishes an actual link. I think it has been determined that Trump knows or knew David Duke and has had some dealings with him in the past. But then, so have a lot of people-- on BOTH sides. I don't hear anybody making the claim about them. But Trump himself is not (clearly and obviously) responsible for any claim that Duke makes, or that the KKK makes, or that any "right-wing" / "hate-oriented" group makes or has made-- unless you have clear evidence to the contrary. You can have Charles Manson coming out for Hillary Clinton, and as much as I hate that bitch, unless you can find a tape of her collaborating with him and/or soliciting him for the statement, you really cannot make the case that Hillary Clinton is a Charles Manson Baby-Killer Lover.

    I see you doing your best to present the information as fairly as you can, and I commend you for that. But I am asking (sincerely, because I want to know / find out)-- how are you making the final leap to Trump being complicit and in collusion with any of these groups? He has publicly disavowed them now, recently, and in the distant past even before he started running.

    But I will make one final conjecture-- Trump *IS* a bit egotistical (I certainly think there is plenty of well-documented evidence of that) and (IMO) lacks quite a bit in the social-ethics department, and I wouldn't put it past him-- particularly in the run-up to the campaign-- to drag his feet a little in making his statement so that *BOTH* sides can make from it what they will (with NO input from him)-- which I will happily and unequivocally agree is scuzzy as hell--but it *still* doesn't equate to collusion with any of those groups.

    For the record, I am not a Trump-lover. I did vote for him, and I will praise the heavens that he got elected over Hillary until my dying day-- but that's the complete and sum total of my affinity for Trump. However, that said, I will neither jump on the bandwagon to condemn his every move simply because Hillary didn't win. I think he's spastic, egotistical, a shitshow, and a whole bunch of other things-- but so far, nobody has been able to positively show me how he is connected with "hate". Spews a lot of shit, I agree. Says a lot of stupid stuff, I agree. Says stuff he really ought not to and has to walk it back, I agree to that too. He's a fucking nightmare on wheels. No question about it. But is he *really* connected to hate? So far I haven't seen it.

    Leave a comment:


  • simpleman
    replied
    Originally posted by mr_e View Post
    Left-Wing Activists Target Professor Who Wasn’t In Charlottesville
    http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/15/le...arlottesville/

    There is a political feeding frenzy going on here. Maybe the driver of the car did it on purpose. Maybe not. I wasn't there, I certainly don't know. But what I do know and am quite certain of, is there is a lot more going on here than meets the eye. Powerful factions set this up and are using it to push their hateful political agendas-- *ON BOTH SIDES*. Trump is absolutely right to call it out. This is NOT the first time that this is happened. It is merely the most fatal to date.
    As longs as you don't claim that a washington swamp pedophile lizard was driving the car... I guess you have not crossed the line of sanity with your conspiracy theories.

    Leave a comment:


  • mr_e
    replied
    Originally posted by simpleman View Post
    KKK supports and celebrates the car attack:

    http://amp.charlotteobserver.com/new...167303682.html

    Did they do it or are they just taking advantage of it?

    Does it even matter?

    I would like to know the truth. And for the record, the KKK is a hate group.

    Leave a comment:


  • mr_e
    replied
    Originally posted by Dee View Post
    - Aside from simpleman, what took you so long? This by far exceeds the importance of the "Damoron" case at least.

    - Going over some of the responses, you may not have grasped what actually happened.

    - A man mowed down a group of human beings with his car.

    - Here it goes again in case it didn't sink in: A man .. mowed down .. a group of human beings with his car.

    - This was only one man, his actions doesn't represent the entire group, and what he did was horrific and a clear-cut case of domestic terrorism.

    - During stressful times like these, the entire nation looks upon one man: The President. They wait for his condemnation of this horrendous act first. And they look to him for words of comfort & great reassurance that such acts will never happen again.

    - F'king it up is an understatement as to the way Trump responded.

    - I'd be willing to overlook the belated condemnation had it been decent & forceful rather than one in which "both sides" were blamed. Was there another f'king Dodge we didn't know about, Trump?

    - Being aware of their public responsibility, republicans across the country wasted no time in harshly condemning the attack, including Jeff Sessions who labeled the attack as an act of terrorism .. and that guy's super conservative and viewed negatively by minorities & activists.

    - Forget Trump, even if there was another president and he was a racist, his only actions would be to severely condemn this attack.

    - That's if he had any sense at all .. that's what it comes down to .. and Trump has absolutely no sense at all.

    - His second round at condemning the attack was both tragic & comical as he started out by talking about jobs, stability, and the economy. Clueless.

    - And you know what's funny? I think it was last month when Trump jumped the gun and condemned an armed robbery in the Philippines, labeling it "a terrorist attack," amidst all the laughter. He was later informed that it was an armed man trying to rob a casino in Manila.

    - What a f'king joke. No wonder the Senate blocked him from making recess appointments until they get back from summer break. He's been wanting to fire Sessions and replace him while Congress was outta town .. he acts like a child, so they treat him like one.


    Dee, I agree with you-- someone died. That *HAS* to be the main story here. It HAS to be.

    The rest I won't particularly respond to because I both agree and disagree, and anybody else's interpretation is certainly as valid as my own. But I will say this for what it's worth. I do think the violence is happening-- at least currently-- from the extreme left. I don't know who the guy in the car was, how he got there, what he was doing there, or what "side" he was on. As far as I know that has not yet been revealed, either through admission or investigation. And in saying so, I am not intending to deflect any criticism of the extreme right and whatever part they may have had to play.

    I believe though-- quite sincerely-- that we are all being played, and that we are watching political theatre being rolled out right in front of us-- deadly political theatre-- for purposes which are not compatible with *ANYBODY'S* definition of freedom or democracy. And no matter how you slice it, THAT is BAD NEWS for all of us.

    But you are so right-- the fact that someone has died is the story. Whoever did it and whomever they were involved with-- should be fully prosecuted to the maximum extent possible. If it was an intentional act, it was cowardly and despicable. If it turns out that it was a false-flag operation, even more so. I don't know the truth. I am seeking the truth. I don't know who has the truth or even if there is a single one truth discernable in the evidence we (meaning you and I) have to examine.

    Whatever it is, I am sick and tired of extremists ON ALL FUCKING SIDES. I want my country back.

    Leave a comment:


  • simpleman
    replied
    KKK supports and celebrates the car attack:

    http://amp.charlotteobserver.com/new...167303682.html

    “Nothing makes us more proud at the KKK than we see white patriots such as James Fields Jr, age 20, taking his car and running over nine communist anti-fascist, killing one (expletive)-lover named Heather Heyer,” the recorded message says. “James Fields hail victory. It’s men like you that have made the great white race strong and will be strong again.”

    Leave a comment:


  • mr_e
    replied
    Left-Wing Activists Target Professor Who Wasn’t In Charlottesville
    http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/15/le...arlottesville/

    There is a political feeding frenzy going on here. Maybe the driver of the car did it on purpose. Maybe not. I wasn't there, I certainly don't know. But what I do know and am quite certain of, is there is a lot more going on here than meets the eye. Powerful factions set this up and are using it to push their hateful political agendas-- *ON BOTH SIDES*. Trump is absolutely right to call it out. This is NOT the first time that this is happened. It is merely the most fatal to date.

    Leave a comment:

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