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  • simpleman
    replied
    Originally posted by mr_e View Post
    I wonder how that drone came to be in just the right place at just the right time. They have a limited battery life and can only fly for so long before needing to be brought down to recharge or replace the batteries.
    If the red suburban didn't slow him down he would have cross straight through the whole group...

    Leave a comment:


  • simpleman
    replied
    Originally posted by Mifune View Post
    Was this a "nazi" demonstration or a racist / identitarian demonstration? I realize those aren't mutually exclusive, but I'm concerned with the use of language lately. Nazis can be racist. Racists can be nazis. And while by-and-large most Nazis are probably racists, that doesn't mean that most racists are necessarily Nazis.

    I'm especially concerned because of the modern language of "it's okay to punch nazis"....is leading people to call everyone they find morally objectionable a nazi. Othering people by placing them in a separate moral category, is the first step in the rationalization process to justify violence. People know it's immoral to initiate violence against another person, but if that person isn't really a person by virtue of their skin color, belief system or politics, then somehow it becomes okay.

    As a thought experiment I wonder if we could come up with other times in history where one group of people made rationalizations about why another group of people was "less human" to justify their atrocities. See how many you can find!
    As far as I understand the manifestation was about preserving some sculpture in town... I also understand that by now said sculpture have being vandalized beyond repair... anyway...

    They talk about 3 types of organizations, that is KKK, Neo-Nazis, and White Supremacists... In this forum I have talk about the first 2 only, and intentionally ignored the last one... because under that term fell people that are not really violent.

    The driver of the car attack is member of a White Supremacist group that under new leadership have turned neo-nazi.

    The difference between KKK and the neo-nazis, as I understand it, is that the KKK want to enslave the blacks while the nazis want to kill them... a fundamental ideological difference that have made it impossible for them to fully integrate... though, a much modern middle idea seems to be their solution, that is to enslave the blacks but euthanize them so there will be no more... this is the closest to a middle point between the 2 ideologies. And recently Trump, they both agree in that.

    What else? Oh yeah, neo-nazies are not real nazis. The Nazi party was closed and worked in a squares system, so you have to apply, they will investigate you, and if approved you are a member of the party... since 1945 there is not office to send applications to... so what we have is some recreationist that have adopted some of the ideology and some of the fashion... I think there is still some nazis around, but they must be around 90+ years old? If someone want to slap nazis, they should hurry because they are dying...

    The driver of the car attack, for instance, enlisted in the army but was dismissed because he failed the physical standards... so must have seeing in a para-militar, neo-nazi organization a place where he belongs to.

    Neo-nazis picked up the hate for the jews, and it is a very important part of their ideology. KKK also dislike jews, but their think is mostly blacks. Both of them now have the hate for muslims, witch might comes as a surprise, considering that Hitler was OK with them... but oh well...

    Leave a comment:


  • mr_e
    replied
    Originally posted by simpleman View Post
    To be honest, I would attack the car too, after I see it mow down a crow, My intention would be to stop him to mow down more people and prevent him to escape... probably a greater challenge to avoid the people to lynch him... so did people got him and turn him to the cops? or he mow down people all the way to his escape from that place?... what would you do different?

    Would be interesting to see the opinion of the forum if the crow capture him and turn him to the cops instead of... In the video it looks like he fail to escape?

    On this point though, I agree with you. If someone had just plowed a car into a crowd where I was standing, I would either try to (A) get out of the way (B) help the victims if they were near me and something I could do and/or (C) attack the car/driver to assist in stopping them.

    On the other hand-- and I'm not making the assertion, just repeating the earlier theory-- if the driver of the car had gone in there accidently / semi-accidently / for any purpose other than looking for outright conflict and had come under attack, he might very well have panicked and backed out as fast as he could. It has happened before in a similar manner in situations that were similarly hostile. The NY Motorcycle / SUV "rampage".



    I can quite well understand how someone could panic in such a circumstance.

    Another item to point out here, getting back to Charlottesville, is that the car is not particularly "barrelling down the street" to *hit* the protesters, but rather backing out as fast as it can after it happened. Something else which to me suggests that it is something a little different than what is being portrayed-- think about it-- if your intent was to do bodily damage, why would you go slow on the way *IN* ???

    Leave a comment:


  • mr_e
    replied
    Originally posted by simpleman View Post
    Drone video shows that he came from a less populated area straight into the crowd... He was not afraid and trying to escape the antifas... he deliberately seek for the crowd and runs them down with his car

    No self defence:

    I wonder how that drone came to be in just the right place at just the right time. They have a limited battery life and can only fly for so long before needing to be brought down to recharge or replace the batteries.

    Leave a comment:


  • simpleman
    replied
    Originally posted by oldblueeyes View Post
    Wow, I didn't realize the crowd was so tiny. Just like ants when viewed from above, aren't we?

    Why Was This 'Crowd Hire' Company Recruiting $25 An Hour 'Political Activists' In Charlotte Last Week?

    Strange.
    Yeah... I wonder for how long he drove around in order to find a crowd worthy of his car... But definitely no the 1000 antifaz other member of the forum is talking about...

    Leave a comment:


  • simpleman
    replied
    Originally posted by Dee View Post
    - This was only one man, his actions doesn't represent the entire group, and what he did was horrific and a clear-cut case of domestic terrorism.
    I agree with most of what you say, this line is the one that I really have trouble with...

    Here some quotations about Vanguard America:

    https://www.adl.org/education/resour...nguard-america

    VA members have targeted Jewish institutions with hateful propaganda.
    In July 2017, VA tweeted, “Those behind the subversive elements eroding our culture often have something in common. Jewish influence is prevalent, invasive, dangerous.”
    VA has some paramilitary characteristics. In states with open carry laws, Irizarry, who uses the title Commander, and several other members have openly carried firearms during rallies and protests.
    In addition to distributing racist and anti-Semitic flyers, Vanguard America has directly targeted Jewish institutions with hateful propaganda. Recent incidents include:
    Shreveport, Louisiana, March 11, 2017: VA stickers were left at two synagogues.
    Lakewood, New Jersey, July 2, 2017: an anti-Semitic VA banner was hung at the Holocaust memorial.
    Houston, Texas, July 16, 2017: two synagogues had anti-Semitic VA flyers taped to signs, doors and gates on their property.
    So... This was only one man... one man filled with hate, that found a group compose of more men, all like him... but yeah... one man...

    By the way, the leader of Vanguard America have made more clear statements against the car attack than... Trump.

    Leave a comment:


  • simpleman
    replied
    Originally posted by Mifune View Post
    I don't know with certainty who they were. But I think that given:
    1. The link I posted previously.
    2. The fact that the permitted protestors came largely with shields and melee weapons not firearms
    3. The fact that nobody got shot despite the escalating violence between the other factions.


    it's a reasonable inference.

    I didn't really argue whether it was reasonable for the author in the Synagogue to feel threatened. I was remarking the ease with which someone who's intentions are ostensibly good can have deeply negative intentions ascribed to them.
    Yeah, who those people where, and what was their intentions is anybody's guess... maybe there was a politician or someone visiting the building in front and those where his armed guards... or maybe anything...

    Leave a comment:


  • simpleman
    replied
    Originally posted by oldblueeyes View Post
    Regarding what, pedophiles? Well, for a long time nobody in a million years would have believed Catholic priests would ever rape boys, but what happened? Riiiiiiight. It wouldn't surprise me if the conspiracy theory whispers about some politicians being pedophiles were true.
    Yeah, from the list you offer, that was the most wild statement...

    So basically the people that have different political ideas than you are the worse kind of devils?

    Leave a comment:


  • Mifune
    replied
    Originally posted by simpleman View Post
    By the way, every time there is a nazi demonstration they manage to route...
    Was this a "nazi" demonstration or a racist / identitarian demonstration? I realize those aren't mutually exclusive, but I'm concerned with the use of language lately. Nazis can be racist. Racists can be nazis. And while by-and-large most Nazis are probably racists, that doesn't mean that most racists are necessarily Nazis.

    I'm especially concerned because of the modern language of "it's okay to punch nazis"....is leading people to call everyone they find morally objectionable a nazi. Othering people by placing them in a separate moral category, is the first step in the rationalization process to justify violence. People know it's immoral to initiate violence against another person, but if that person isn't really a person by virtue of their skin color, belief system or politics, then somehow it becomes okay.

    As a thought experiment I wonder if we could come up with other times in history where one group of people made rationalizations about why another group of people was "less human" to justify their atrocities. See how many you can find!

    Leave a comment:


  • oldblueeyes
    replied
    Originally posted by simpleman View Post
    Drone video shows that he came from a less populated area straight into the crowd..
    Wow, I didn't realize the crowd was so tiny. Just like ants when viewed from above, aren't we?

    Why Was This 'Crowd Hire' Company Recruiting $25 An Hour 'Political Activists' In Charlotte Last Week?

    Strange.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mifune
    replied
    Originally posted by simpleman View Post
    How do you know who the 3 people with guns was???

    For what I understand, they never approach the people in the synagogue, introduced themselves and explain their presence...

    I don't see how you know who they are and what where their motives...

    By the way, every time there is a nazi demonstration they manage to route it in front of a synagogue and proceed to do their little show... this is not a 1 time event... In some cases there have being vandalized property and assault too...
    I don't know with certainty who they were. But I think that given:
    1. The link I posted previously.
    2. The fact that the permitted protestors came largely with shields and melee weapons not firearms
    3. The fact that nobody got shot despite the escalating violence between the other factions.


    it's a reasonable inference.

    I didn't really argue whether it was reasonable for the author in the Synagogue to feel threatened. I was remarking the ease with which someone who's intentions are ostensibly good can have deeply negative intentions ascribed to them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dee
    replied
    - Aside from simpleman, what took you so long? This by far exceeds the importance of the "Damoron" case at least.

    - Going over some of the responses, you may not have grasped what actually happened.

    - A man mowed down a group of human beings with his car.

    - Here it goes again in case it didn't sink in: A man .. mowed down .. a group of human beings with his car.

    - This was only one man, his actions doesn't represent the entire group, and what he did was horrific and a clear-cut case of domestic terrorism.

    - During stressful times like these, the entire nation looks upon one man: The President. They wait for his condemnation of this horrendous act first. And they look to him for words of comfort & great reassurance that such acts will never happen again.

    - F'king it up is an understatement as to the way Trump responded.

    - I'd be willing to overlook the belated condemnation had it been decent & forceful rather than one in which "both sides" were blamed. Was there another f'king Dodge we didn't know about, Trump?

    - Being aware of their public responsibility, republicans across the country wasted no time in harshly condemning the attack, including Jeff Sessions who labeled the attack as an act of terrorism .. and that guy's super conservative and viewed negatively by minorities & activists.

    - Forget Trump, even if there was another president and he was a racist, his only actions would be to severely condemn this attack.

    - That's if he had any sense at all .. that's what it comes down to .. and Trump has absolutely no sense at all.

    - His second round at condemning the attack was both tragic & comical as he started out by talking about jobs, stability, and the economy. Clueless.

    - And you know what's funny? I think it was last month when Trump jumped the gun and condemned an armed robbery in the Philippines, labeling it "a terrorist attack," amidst all the laughter. He was later informed that it was an armed man trying to rob a casino in Manila.

    - What a f'king joke. No wonder the Senate blocked him from making recess appointments until they get back from summer break. He's been wanting to fire Sessions and replace him while Congress was outta town .. he acts like a child, so they treat him like one.

    Leave a comment:


  • oldblueeyes
    replied
    Originally posted by simpleman View Post
    You are sick.
    Regarding what, pedophiles? Well, for a long time nobody in a million years would have believed Catholic priests would ever rape boys, but what happened? Riiiiiiight. It wouldn't surprise me if the conspiracy theory whispers about some politicians being pedophiles were true.

    Leave a comment:


  • simpleman
    replied
    Trump says it was violence in both sides... Video doesn't show it...

    Leave a comment:


  • simpleman
    replied
    Again video shows he was not escaping antifaz that were attacking him, he used the car as a weapon against people standing in a corner:

    Leave a comment:

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