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  • simpleman
    replied
    Originally posted by dubs View Post
    Oh right, so now the mexicans are racist too.
    THere is racism in Mexico... I am not making this stuff up...

    And I bet laws are racist, passports are racist and borders are racist.
    Some laws actually are...

    Schools are racist, "why we gotta learn this shit. Fuck you whitey gimme my money."
    Did you see the table of the names of the different mixing of races? I had to memorize it, and I was asked it in a test, and have I fail the test I would not get the high school diploma... this table have serve me for anything in my life, why it was so important for them that I memorize it? this is the tools I need for my adult life?

    Why you mock me if I question the education I was giving? I think I have the right to question it.

    Walls can't stop drones so let's just stop enforcing borders.
    That would not have being my conclusion... my conclusion would have being... to stop pretending fighting drugs...

    The wall is about drugs as much as the neo-nazi demonstrations in Charlottesville was about the sculpture of a guy.

    Let's have one-world with no borders or better yet go back to Tribalism with your beloved rainforest dwellers.
    And that is bad... because?

    So far all of your "anti-racism" sounds like "anti-white" culturally.
    Nice... I call out white racist, native indian racist, black racists... and all you take from it is that I hate white culture...

    Let me put it to you this way... If you consider racism part of white culture... then I will agree with you that I hate it... at least that aspect of white culture.

    [/I]It's specifically not about race, it's about "cultural white" vs "cultural non-white." Rule of law vs "my ancestors were indians therefor your borders mean nothing to me."
    For sure we can find some of those native indians supporting fascism? you know... because white supremacy is a very diverse group... as you claim.

    Being a hard-worker is fine.

    Being a hard-worker that paid a coyote to cross illegally is not fine.
    I did not talk about coyotes... I talk about people that came with a work permit.. legally... now Trump is refusing to renew the permit, making them illegal after the fact...

    So they came legals, respecting the laws, they did not rape or sell drugs, they work for money... now a signature, or a lack of signature have turn them into illegals... the big number of them are returning bkack to Mexico, voluntarily...

    This is the people I am talking about. I think they fundamentally different to the people you describe... as they came legals...

    How can we control wages if we can't control borders?
    If you ask me..

    We should not control wages at all... I believe in open market, another great landmark of capitalism... each employee should negotiate his wages with the employer, the government have not business to intervene in this, it is inserting an element of artificiality that is hurting the marketplace...

    Controlling wages is government protectionism under socialist administration, this kind of administrations never end well.

    And then you have people trafficing, drug trafficing, mafias, crime, instability, etc etc.
    Here I have an idea that will fix the problem for good... American people, stop snoring that stuff. If you are willing to pay a lot of money for it, there is always someone wiling to bring it to your convenient street.

    A border is not "anti-mexican" you dumbass.

    A border says, "Come in thru the front door. Show your passport. Apply for visa. Wait on line."

    It's the most basic civilization.
    Oh boy... the basis of civilization, you say??? Right along side with farming and mastering fire... I guess....

    People who came from Mexico are not Mexican anymore, they are Americans.
    I have a friend, he have a very interesting story to say...

    He claims that long time ago he was in Mexico, but then some people came with some soldiers and claim that it was not longer Mexico but Texas, and he now is being told he should go back to the place he came from... which is interesting, assuming he is telling me the true... that he did not illegally crossed any border, but the border basically crossed him... Maybe the border hire a coyote?

    These are not permanent tribes by blood.

    They are legal and social tribes by nationality and culture.
    Certainly not the opinion of the KKK.

    Leave a comment:


  • dubs
    replied
    Oh right, so now the mexicans are racist too.

    And I bet laws are racist, passports are racist and borders are racist.

    Schools are racist, "why we gotta learn this shit. Fuck you whitey gimme my money."

    Walls can't stop drones so let's just stop enforcing borders.

    Let's have one-world with no borders or better yet go back to Tribalism with your beloved rainforest dwellers.

    So far all of your "anti-racism" sounds like "anti-white" culturally.

    But that's what all this alt-right alt-left stuff is.

    It's specifically not about race, it's about "cultural white" vs "cultural non-white." Rule of law vs "my ancestors were indians therefor your borders mean nothing to me."

    Being a hard-worker is fine.

    Being a hard-worker that paid a coyote to cross illegally is not fine.

    How can we control wages if we can't control borders?

    And then you have people trafficing, drug trafficing, mafias, crime, instability, etc etc.

    A border is not "anti-mexican" you dumbass.

    A border says, "Come in thru the front door. Show your passport. Apply for visa. Wait on line."

    It's the most basic civilization.

    People who came from Mexico are not Mexican anymore, they are Americans.

    These are not permanent tribes by blood.

    They are legal and social tribes by nationality and culture.

    Leave a comment:


  • mr_e
    replied
    Hillary Staffer Triggered by Confederate Flag on Boat Saving Black Flood Victims
    http://ijr.com/the-declaration/2017/...-flood-victims

    "Isn't it strange how we haven't seen anyone dressed in black with masks covering their faces helping flood victims in Texas?"


    Mr. E: I particularly liked this one...


    Leave a comment:


  • mr_e
    replied
    Originally posted by simpleman View Post
    Yeah, I think it is something constant with humankind... Basically the only form of socialism I am cool with...

    Socrates explain it way better than me... if I made my community better, I will benefit of living in such better community... so for selfish reasons I am selfless... or some like that.

    I think people should be encouraged to become tied to their communities. It works out better for everybody. The more involved and "enfranchised" a person is in their community, the more likely they are to consider it their "home", their "home turf", where their friends are, where their interests are-- and to be something they are motivated to uplift and protect.

    Leave a comment:


  • mr_e
    replied
    Originally posted by simpleman View Post
    Out of curiosity, if you was the Mayor of Charlottesvile... what you have done different?
    I would have separated the groups and told the police to do their jobs and protect the public. Not try and further some bullshit political agenda by playing with people's safety-- and ultimately their lives. And I feel justified in saying that as the situation has been similar everywhere ANTIFA has shown up. The authorities have quietly abdicated their responsibilities in order to let the thugs have their way. The utter irony of them claiming to be "Anti-Nazi" is off the meter supreme-- when they themselves are the ones who are initiating the violence and resorting to brutal Nazi-esque tactics. They go around with their "Anti-Hate" movements committing all manner of violence, pretty much indiscriminately against whomever is there in their way-- and then they call it "*LOVE* Trumping Hate". The irony is dripping... right along with the blood from their handiwork.

    There is no defense for hateful ideologies whether they are of the left or the right. I condemn them all without hesitation or reservation. But make no mistake, it is the LEFT who is showing up outfitted for battle who has been shown time and time again starting the violence, committing the violence, stoking the violence, and calling for more violence in their never-ending battle to fan the flames, amp up the rhetoric, and "RESIST". They are going to "RESIST" themselves right into an armed conflict-- which they are not going to be able to win. The military sides with Trump, and the NRA is a conservative organizations. The Left is the traditional stronghold for the Anti-Gun movement. I just don't see what their goal is, their purpose is, or what the end strategy here is. It sees pointless, unless someone else really controls the military and a coup is right around the corner....

    Leave a comment:


  • simpleman
    replied
    Originally posted by Manalysis View Post
    Something you find many places, I think, even in the USA, at least among the Amish ... "barnraising" and such.
    We have it, too, it's called "dugnad". People get together to undertake some common labour, or to help someone.

    M
    Yeah, I think it is something constant with humankind... Basically the only form of socialism I am cool with...

    Socrates explain it way better than me... if I made my community better, I will benefit of living in such better community... so for selfish reasons I am selfless... or some like that.

    Leave a comment:


  • simpleman
    replied
    Originally posted by dubs View Post
    Alt-right is racially diverse by definition.

    The left tries to frame it as a racialist movement because they're scared shitless.

    For example

    Most Mexican-Americans WANT border control, they didn't leave Tijuana to end up living in El Salvador.
    THis is way more complicated than this... but i am not going to attempt to explain it, last time i try to explain the problems it was a big effort on my part that was answer with the claim that I am an anti-mexican... But there is a lot more behind this than what you describe here.

    Likewise most Syrians didn't come to London to find the same group of Salafist asshats that drove them out of Syria.
    I don't really know much about this situation you describe here.

    The left frames that as "racism" but we all know it's not, and some of the strongest proponents of border controls are people who aren't white.
    There is not real unity between latin american nations... so as an american might see a mexican coming here to steal a job that belongs to an american... a mexican will see a guatemalan as someone who is coming to US to steal a job from a mexican... But this is just one level of separation.

    Other level of separation is by ethnicities and it works this way:

    What you know as the hispanic raze is divided into at least 8 diferent racial groups... and there is a word for each one of them...

    You have whites from europe, blacks from africa, and yellow for native indians ( so that is the 3 main groups)... then you can start mix and match however you like...

    A mestizo is the mix of european and native indian.
    While an european with an african is a mulato
    The indian with an african is a zambo...
    Then you will have the second level of mixing... and so on and go on...



    What you see in that graphic might look like pure madness to you... it is part of what I learned at school, and as far as I know it is still school material today... I am not joking when I say that at school they give me nothing but BS.

    In another level of division between the people there is the status of novelty:

    A "Criollo" is pure blood white, no mixing at all, with ancestors coming from Europe, but as they are not born in the glorious european soil, but in the dirty south american soil... they are not fully europeans, though they claim the purity of their blood... Second class europeans... But never the less europeans... and so they claim their blood to be of especial worth...

    And so you find the same with native indians that patronize the whites by calling them "little brother", and they consider themselves of a superior racial status, for their much advanced spirituality. Or so they claim.

    Then you have the blacks... that is a ladder of shades, where the lightest shades will discriminate the darker shades, until the darkest one of them will then claim that his ancestor was the king of some african land... Talking here of south america, not north america, of course... in north america I have not detected the ladder of shades, and they all claim to be descendants, not of some african king but of egyptian pharaohs... nothing less...

    Another level of separation is, of course... giving in economical class...

    Then again at this moment I don't feel like explaining in deep all this nonsense. But sufficient to say... yes there is white supremacists in mexico, no they don't consider themselves to be part of the same mixed group that the majority of the country is right now... and even the ones that are no criollos are separating themselves from the masses by any of the other giving options...

    Your evidence does not show that alt-right is diversified... what your evidence show is that there is racism in hispanic america...

    Whereas some of the biggest "open borders" people are white college snowflakes who live sheltered lives and never been robbed at gunpoint.
    Because the hispanics are the ones doing all the gunpoint robbin... I guess...

    Mexico is not giving us their best people.
    This depends on how you qualify people... Most of them are hardworking people... granted not so much educated and they don't shower every day... but besides the point... hard workers in physical tasks... and having such around is not really a bad idea... in my opinion...

    In this article a man name Solorio is telling us about his struggles to find someone that helps him collect some plantation, before it rottens on the trees... so to speak... think how nice it would have being for him if Trump decided to renew the permit of 1 million mexicans that don't rape, don't steal at gunpoint, don't deal with drugs... but work all day long in farms picking up product... but they get not permit renewals, so when the permit expired, they were call illegals rounded up, put in a buss and dropped by a bridge on the south border... Now Mr Solorio is offering more money... just to be able to collect the plantation, pay the debt he got into, to start it on the first place, and cut even... and still not luck:

    http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-f...s-immigration/

    But what do I know? Having a lot of hard working cheap labour around maybe is a bad idea after all... lest rescue the jobs for americans... but americans better don't wait too long to take the now empty job offers... because the plantation rottens fast then Mr Solorio will have to declare bankruptcy, and he will not have any plantation next year... So those americans crying that mexicans steal their jobs, and voted for Trump to get them the jobs back... time to stop crying and step up... because Mr Solorio is already waiting for you... Trump is delivering what he promise... americans promise they will take the job back from mexicans... where are those Trump voters now that Mr Solorio need them?

    They're not controlling their border and all the garbage is coming thru.
    Then again... depending of what is your standard for garbage people...

    That's what the wall is for.
    Drugs dealers now using drones to fly their product over the fence... how tall is this wall going to be?

    Might be ugly to say but life is even uglier, reality is super extra ugly.
    Yeah yeah... life is ugly, reality is ugly... so we might as well be ugly too... so to match...

    You know what's dangerous?

    What's dangerous is when Democrat mayors don't respect free speech and let 100 antifa kick the crap out of 10 Trump supporters.
    Out of curiosity, if you was the Mayor of Charlottesvile... what you have done different?

    We are heading for Soviet style fascism.
    Trump is the one leading it to where we are going... so... to where you say he is leading us to?

    Leave a comment:


  • mr_e
    replied
    Originally posted by Manalysis View Post
    Hi,

    this just in - the guy who filmed Charlotteville:

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...esville-215514

    M
    My reply on that page:

    "That's really the problem, *YOU* saw it, *WE* didn't. All *WE* have is the various videos and testimonies to consider-- which includes yours, and those of others. While I can certainly understand your own being upset, you can't really blame other people for forming opinions based on information which may or may not have been attributable to you. You do the same in other situations. Unless you happen to be the Johnny-on-the-Spot with the eye-witness view, that's all you can do. And for you to try and use that as an excuse to tar and feather good people who's only "crime" is that they weren't there to witness it firsthand themselves, is kind of disingenuous of you. Even if your account is the one, true and correct one-- other people have no way of knowing that. For you to be sitting here pushing THIS particularly narrative in the aftermath of all that is- IMO-- kind of suspect, all on its own."

    Leave a comment:


  • Manalysis
    replied
    Originally posted by simpleman View Post
    Native indians in South America practice something call "minga".
    This is they gather together get some work done... this can be from public infrastructure that benefits the whole community, to helping someone build a house...
    The whole system works in the the principles of good faith... or as we would call it a social contract... I call a minga to help build my house, 30 neighbors show up and help me do it... when them call a minga I should show up and help them...
    Then again leaders can call mingas for construction of public infrastructure, like schools roads, and the so...
    Something you find many places, I think, even in the USA, at least among the Amish ... "barnraising" and such.
    We have it, too, it's called "dugnad". People get together to undertake some common labour, or to help someone.

    M

    Leave a comment:


  • mr_e
    replied
    Originally posted by Manalysis View Post
    Black, right?

    M

    Plaid.



    +10Plaid

    Leave a comment:


  • dubs
    replied
    Originally posted by simpleman View Post
    I think it is dangerous... There was some really ugly things Trump say during his campaign, and as the alt-right likes to remember, nobody though he was goign to win.. but he did... which means that the majority of the people agree with his arguments... that for instance that hispanic people is not contributing anything positive to US, but on the opposite, making it dangerous, with drugs crimes and rape... So it is proven that the majority of US people agree with Trump on his understanding of who the problem is... so we are basically 1 step to go full nazis... what is the solution of the problem?
    Alt-right is racially diverse by definition.

    The left tries to frame it as a racialist movement because they're scared shitless.

    For example

    Most Mexican-Americans WANT border control, they didn't leave Tijuana to end up living in El Salvador.

    Likewise most Syrians didn't come to London to find the same group of Salafist asshats that drove them out of Syria.

    In other words, border control and INTEGRATION.

    The left frames that as "racism" but we all know it's not, and some of the strongest proponents of border controls are people who aren't white.

    Whereas some of the biggest "open borders" people are white college snowflakes who live sheltered lives and never been robbed at gunpoint.

    Mexico is not giving us their best people.

    They're not controlling their border and all the garbage is coming thru.

    That's what the wall is for.

    Might be ugly to say but life is even uglier, reality is super extra ugly.

    You know what's dangerous?

    What's dangerous is when Democrat mayors don't respect free speech and let 100 antifa kick the crap out of 10 Trump supporters.

    We are heading for Soviet style fascism.

    "stfu or else."
    Last edited by dubs; 08-28-2017, 04:48 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • simpleman
    replied
    Originally posted by Manalysis View Post
    Hi,

    this just in - the guy who filmed Charlotteville:

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...esville-215514

    M
    In other words... anybody that says something that is inconvenient for them... must be evil, with secret agendas, and a communist antifa...

    Leave a comment:


  • simpleman
    replied
    Native indians in South America practice something call "minga".

    This is they gather together get some work done... this can be from public infrastructure that benefits the whole community, to helping someone build a house...

    The whole system works in the the principles of good faith... or as we would call it a social contract... I call a minga to help build my house, 30 neighbors show up and help me do it... when them call a minga I should show up and help them...

    Then again leaders can call mingas for construction of public infrastructure, like schools roads, and the so...

    https://lahora.com.ec/noticia/1101821024/noticia

    I am not bothering to find something in English this time... MatrixTansform have offered the services of his girlfriend to do the translations... so with that in consideration... I feel OK to share material in Spanish...

    MatrixTransform... there is some French material I want to bring too... your girlfriend knows French?

    Leave a comment:


  • simpleman
    replied
    Originally posted by MatrixTransform View Post
    I know, unfair salaries ... evaluating humans according to wealth or property instead of responsibility and performance.
    That is not what I meant... I did not talked about weather for free...

    When mother nature hits you, you would like to have some community support to help you survive, and maybe get back on your feet...

    Right now in the news we have all this situation about Houston... Why people is sending them help? can this help be explain by capitalist mechanism? Or by socialist mechanism?

    I mentioned Canada, specifically, because a person can't survive alone in there... you can't just go off the grid in Canada...

    In other words... we humans tend to group together and seek for the good of such community, in order to survive hard natural conditions... ones the conditions don't look to hard, then we can afford to be a bit more individualists, and you can't have capitalism without individualism.

    PD: I don't appreciate the quote mining.
    Last edited by simpleman; 08-28-2017, 01:09 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • simpleman
    replied
    Originally posted by Manalysis View Post
    Thank you for raising this point.
    Yes, I saw that myself, and did debate with myself if I should go in and change that; a most unfortunate choice of words. Sorry about that.
    I meant to convey that a basic perspective may be limited in its content to things that are obvious, where the obvious is not the whole story;
    and portay something as structurally simple, where a more detailed model would do more justice in modelling what the model is meant to show, i.e. reality.
    This holds true at least in the analysis phase; ideally this should result in steps to action that are basic in the sense of both being elegantly simple and easy to perform.
    I did not mean to say anything about you, and certainly not to say anything bad.
    Yes that is what I understood when you answer to my message... that you was not really calling me uninformed on the way I though it was...

    So, what do you think of the USA wrt. following that kind of speech?
    I think it is dangerous... There was some really ugly things Trump say during his campaign, and as the alt-right likes to remember, nobody though he was goign to win.. but he did... which means that the majority of the people agree with his arguments... that for instance that hispanic people is not contributing anything positive to US, but on the opposite, making it dangerous, with drugs crimes and rape... So it is proven that the majority of US people agree with Trump on his understanding of who the problem is... so we are basically 1 step to go full nazis... what is the solution of the problem?

    I feel really uncomfortable on the idea that the problem is not a "what" but a "who"... And I think that eventually the solution will look somewhat similar to the Nazi one... on the sense that if the problem is a whole demographic, there are not that many options for dealing with it... You can kick them out, you can arras them to see if they leave or at least expend more time at home, and eventually you can round them, first in fenced neighborhood and then...

    US is already full into kicking them... and I am not talking here about illegals, I am talking here kicking more than that... legals... as the difference between an illegal and a legal is a paper that is regulated by Trump's policies... millions of people that where illegal 3 months ago are right now in a legal limbo where their papers are about to expire or have being flat out revoque... BUt in times of campaign I raised up this concern and I was told this was never goign to happen, and the legals are fine, but the illegals gotta go... now for Trump signature we have millions of legals becoming illegals...

    Harassing on the street is also happening, but as of now, not as bad as I thought it was goign to be... I thought the KKK was goign to declare they win the country back and go full rampant on the street, gang beating brown people... and so far, it have not happened enough times to call it a social problem... in the other hand brown people is organizing groups and go out to beat up white people... as much or even more and the white gangs have beat browns... Though for hispanic and black communities it is clear which gang Trump supports, so those are the ones that will win in the long run.

    Segregation is not even on the map yet, though it looks like very likely we end up having it... And concentration camps is an idea that I don't want to accept is even possible in our times... but who knows? maybe the alt-right surprise me again with something I though was never going to happens?

    But yeah, Trump have a very dangerous speech, and I was confident such speech would have never being listened too.. but it ends up the majority did so... though many of them tell me that they don't think Trump actually mean what he says, and they don't think Trump can't do any of that, even if he tries... Political ladscape is looking worse and worse...

    My impression is that they usually don't; OTOH the population is easy to win for a war once the flames of patriotism are fanned.
    I don't know if that is the same thing.
    It is...

    Yes; but that risk has to be assessed realistically, or else the countermeasures ... you know, etc. etc.
    I don't know how to do that... I understand your point about the countermeasures... but I don't know how to assess a risk at 100% accuracy.

    I think you could roast the entire alt.right over a slow fire without any of them coming up with the name of a 12th century German troubadour as their intellectual inspiration.
    No in North America...

    But I can't tell what is worse... The ones that are educated to such levels have very solid and strong ideas. Or the ones that are not so much educated... are more gang likes.

    The other worry here is that if you put barriers in place, and that if these get big and strong, the ability to control them and manage them and take them back down is dangeroulsy naïve; i.e. "government skepticism".
    I assumed as much. And then they would send up the interviewed person on TV ... must have been a high risk sport.
    It definitely was a risky move for any politician, because the questions where hard, nothing was off topic, nothing was moderated, he will shut questions that nobody else would have dare to... But at the end they would have come looking stronger, honest and even as good sports... if they manage to survive the questions.

    Your remarks about his humour are making more and more sense...

    But again, these conditions differ considerably from the US, don't you think?

    M
    No for much, to be honest...

    Last time I compared the situation of US with the situation of Colombia, on this forums. I say that in "The Violence" (*that is the actual name of the historical time frame) people would go to the streets and ask you of what political party you are a member off, and if you say the wrong political party they will kill you in the spot. I mentioned at that time that I don't think US will ever gets as violent and as bad as that... 2 weeks later a guy did exactly that, asked some people playing baseball about their political affiliation and then open fire.

    * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Violencia

    So... I see a fast degradation of US as a nation... rapidly turning into 3th world dictatorship, and not even realizing it.

    Leave a comment:

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